{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3842",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 3842,
    "subject": "Lowering the tone",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2003-02-10T12:19:31+00:00",
    "last": "2003-02-10T16:25:35+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0302-2918@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Nigel Price",
        "address": "nigel.aprice at virgin.net"
      },
      "date": "2003-02-10T12:19:31+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Lowering the tone",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Resolutely sticking to the TAD trail, like a bloodhound on a scent, the\ntireless Mantis asks:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Brings us back to the \"William\" puzzle piece.\nWhy William?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Is it simply too gross to point to the phallic associations of the name, or\nat least its diminutive? Wolfe is not above the occasional low pun and might\nwell have chuckled at the thought that Lara, the goddess of erotic love,\nloves \"Willies\"?\n\nCrude, I know, but possible.\n\nFor a long time, I was unsure whether this particular nursery usage of the\nname \"Willie\" was known in the States, but they showed the recent Austin\nPowers film on TV last night, and the two minutes of it that I watched made\nexactly this pun, playing on the singer Willie Nelson's name in the context\nof the shape of Dr Evil's phallic rocket ship.\n\nSorry to lower the tone of the discussion.\n\nNigel"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0302-2920@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi",
        "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com"
      },
      "date": "2003-02-10T16:25:35+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Lowering the tone",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0302-2918@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Nigel wrote:\nIs it simply too gross to point to the phallic associations of the name, or\nat least its diminutive?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "No, not at all.  Thanks for raising the point -- bringing it up -- drawing\nit to our attention.\n\nFor all I know \"Attis\" might have a similar etymology (aside from association).\n\nSpeaking of Attis, the FUNK & WAGNALLS STANDARD DICTIONARY OF FOLKLORE,\nMYTHOLOGY, AND LEGEND has some nice notes: mention of the pine connection,\nwhich we've noted before; a calendar of events, which goes like this\n\n===\nMarch 22 -- pine tree is cut and brought into the sanctuary of Cybele where\nit is \"swathed with woolen bands, decked with violets\" and has an effigy of\na young man tied to it.\n\nMarch 23 -- no comments given.\n\nMarch 24 -- Day of Blood, with bloodletting and probably the\nself-emasculation rites.\n\nMarch 25 -- the resurrection celebration in a \"licentious carnival.\"  (I've\nalways thought that this must be among the non-castrated, but this just\nshows my own ridiculous biases.)\n\nMarch 26 -- day of repose.\n\nMarch 27 -- festival closes with a procession of the goddess image to the\nAlmo River where wagon and image were bathed.\n===\n\nBeware the ides of March, indeed!\n\nIntriguing, but Green left Earth on March 14, came back April 15.\n\nArthur Cotterell's A DICTIONARY OF WORLD MYTHOLOGY has this tidbit:\n\n\"Union was achieved through either self-mutilation or a sacred marriage: to\nall devotees was open what had once been the prerogative of West Asian\nkingship\" (under ATTIS).\n\nI find this interesting as a case where there is mention of an option to\nself-castration: a \"sacred marriage.\"\n\n=mantis="
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}