{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3845", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3845, "subject": "DOORS: Dates, ages", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2003-02-11T06:31:03+00:00", "last": "2003-02-12T22:01:40+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2003-02-11T06:31:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) DOORS: Dates, ages", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis wrote:\nSpeaking of Attis, the FUNK & WAGNALLS STANDARD DICTIONARY OF FOLKLORE,\nMYTHOLOGY, AND LEGEND has some nice notes: mention of the pine connection,\nwhich we've noted before; a calendar of events, which goes like this\n\n===\nMarch 22 -- pine tree is cut and brought into the sanctuary of Cybele where\nit is \"swathed with woolen bands, decked with violets\" and has an effigy of\na young man tied to it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "F&W must have been using Frazer for their authority; the quoted section is\nalmost the same as in chapter XXXIV of THE GOLDEN BOUGH.\n\nI couldn't do anything with the March dates. It was January when Green first\narrived in Otherworld, either the 17th or 18th, depending on whether he\nspent one or two nights in the hospital. He escaped on the 19th and spent\nthat night at the hotel with North. They went to the theater on the night of\nthe 20th, and Green spent that night alone at the hotel. The next day, the\n21st, is when Green met Fanny and he returned to our world, where it was\nApril 15. The 21st is also when North killed Applewood. I can't do anything\nwith the January dates, either.\n\nGreen's return to Otherworld, though it had been several years for him in\nour world, was four months later, making it about May 21st there. Ring any\nbells?\n\nWhen Green had lunch with Lara at Mama Capini's for the last time, what did\nMama and her son's see when they looked in the mirror? Were they four months\nor 4-5 years older than they were when Green had lunch with Fanny?\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2003-02-12T22:01:40+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) DOORS: Dates, ages", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Roy wrote:\nI couldn't do anything with the March dates. It was January when Green first\narrived in Otherworld, either the 17th or 18th, depending on whether he\nspent one or two nights in the hospital. He escaped on the 19th and spent\nthat night at the hotel with North. They went to the theater on the night of\nthe 20th, and Green spent that night alone at the hotel. The next day, the\n21st, is when Green met Fanny and he returned to our world, where it was\nApril 15. The 21st is also when North killed Applewood. I can't do anything\nwith the January dates, either.\n\nGreen's return to Otherworld, though it had been several years for him in\nour world, was four months later, making it about May 21st there. Ring any\nbells?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No bells ringing for me, aside from a progression from early Winter into\nmid-Spring." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "When Green had lunch with Lara at Mama Capini's for the last time, what did\nMama and her son's see when they looked in the mirror? Were they four months\nor 4-5 years older than they were when Green had lunch with Fanny?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Yeah, that restaurant-between-worlds plays hell with employee\nbreak-times, too. Step out for a cigarete, come back a few days later; a\nlittle afternoon-delight and you miss a pay-period. And if the family\ndoesn't actually live in the same building as the restaurant, whoo boy! Or\nrather, \"Mamma mia!\"\n\nBacking up to figuring North's perspective: the police report first note is\ndated in July, 1987, as a member of Blue September; then December, 1987 he\nis chief of Iron Boot; finally he is arrested in June, 1988. So we figure\nhe has been in Otherworld for about two local years (because we see him in\nJanuary after June). Since we determine that he entered in 1972, it stands\nto reason that in one step he went from 1972 to 1987 (a fifteen year gap,\nwith Otherworld having the date \"in the future\").\n\nWhen Green enters Otherworld, we don't know the Earth date (beyond it being\nsome year after 1984), yet he does not seem surprised at the dates on the\npolice reports (1987, 1988), suggesting that the Earth date must be at\nleast 1988 (or Green is just not as detail-oriented as we are, a\npossibility). This suggests that the year-gap is down to zero, or close.\nEarth might even have the date \"in the future.\"\n\nWhen Green returns to Otherworld, he must then be going into the past,\nsince it is still 1989 in Otherworld and it is something like 1993 on\nEarth. Clearly by this stage (if not earlier) Earth has a calendar year\n\"in the future\" from the Otherworld perspective.\n\nTWO WINNERS?\nToday I wonder if North didn't actually \"win\" by dying. It has to do with\nLiddy's \"Watch me and learn how to die\" phrase to all the \"squeelers\" as he\nmarched off to prison. North is definitely going out in a blaze of glory,\nthe warrior's dream of \"dying with his boots on\"; and judging by the\nimmediate effect, with the men outside weaping at the news, I wonder if he\nhas actually brought the Thunder-child cult into being in Otherworld. Like\nthe hero of Kipling's poem \"If,\" he gambles it all on one throw of the dice\nand cannot lose no matter what.\n\nICE FLOES AT CAPITAL CITY\nBefore I forget: the reason I wonder if Otherworld might be in a mini-Ice\nAge is that detail about the ice in the water/on the beach seen from the\nhotel, and Green's conviction that the lattitude on Earth would be much\nmilder than that.\n\n=mantis=" } ] } ] }