Subject: (urth) DOORS: Dates, ages

From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 06:31:03 +0000

mantis wrote:
>Speaking of Attis, the FUNK & WAGNALLS STANDARD DICTIONARY OF FOLKLORE,
>MYTHOLOGY, AND LEGEND has some nice notes: mention of the pine connection,
>which we've noted before; a calendar of events, which goes like this
>
>===
>March 22 -- pine tree is cut and brought into the sanctuary of Cybele where
>it is "swathed with woolen bands, decked with violets" and has an effigy of
>a young man tied to it.

F&W must have been using Frazer for their authority; the quoted section is
almost the same as in chapter XXXIV of THE GOLDEN BOUGH.

I couldn't do anything with the March dates. It was January when Green first
arrived in Otherworld, either the 17th or 18th, depending on whether he
spent one or two nights in the hospital. He escaped on the 19th and spent
that night at the hotel with North. They went to the theater on the night of
the 20th, and Green spent that night alone at the hotel. The next day, the
21st, is when Green met Fanny and he returned to our world, where it was
April 15. The 21st is also when North killed Applewood. I can't do anything
with the January dates, either.

Green's return to Otherworld, though it had been several years for him in
our world, was four months later, making it about May 21st there. Ring any
bells?

When Green had lunch with Lara at Mama Capini's for the last time, what did
Mama and her son's see when they looked in the mirror? Were they four months
or 4-5 years older than they were when Green had lunch with Fanny?

-Roy

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From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:01:40 +0000

>our world, was four months later, making it about May 21st there. Ring any

No bells ringing for me, aside from a progression from early Winter into
mid-Spring.

>or 4-5 years older than they were when Green had lunch with Fanny?

<LOL>  Yeah, that restaurant-between-worlds plays hell with employee
break-times, too.  Step out for a cigarete, come back a few days later; a
little afternoon-delight and you miss a pay-period.  And if the family
doesn't actually live in the same building as the restaurant, whoo boy!  Or
rather, "Mamma mia!"

Backing up to figuring North's perspective: the police report first note is
dated in July, 1987, as a member of Blue September; then December, 1987 he
is chief of Iron Boot; finally he is arrested in June, 1988.  So we figure
he has been in Otherworld for about two local years (because we see him in
January after June).  Since we determine that he entered in 1972, it stands
to reason that in one step he went from 1972 to 1987 (a fifteen year gap,
with Otherworld having the date "in the future").

When Green enters Otherworld, we don't know the Earth date (beyond it being
some year after 1984), yet he does not seem surprised at the dates on the
police reports (1987, 1988), suggesting that the Earth date must be at
least 1988 (or Green is just not as detail-oriented as we are, a
possibility).  This suggests that the year-gap is down to zero, or close.
Earth might even have the date "in the future."

When Green returns to Otherworld, he must then be going into the past,
since it is still 1989 in Otherworld and it is something like 1993 on
Earth.  Clearly by this stage (if not earlier) Earth has a calendar year
"in the future" from the Otherworld perspective.

TWO WINNERS?
Today I wonder if North didn't actually "win" by dying.  It has to do with
Liddy's "Watch me and learn how to die" phrase to all the "squeelers" as he
marched off to prison.  North is definitely going out in a blaze of glory,
the warrior's dream of "dying with his boots on"; and judging by the
immediate effect, with the men outside weaping at the news, I wonder if he
has actually brought the Thunder-child cult into being in Otherworld.  Like
the hero of Kipling's poem "If," he gambles it all on one throw of the dice
and cannot lose no matter what.

ICE FLOES AT CAPITAL CITY
Before I forget: the reason I wonder if Otherworld might be in a mini-Ice
Age is that detail about the ice in the water/on the beach seen from the
hotel, and Green's conviction that the lattitude on Earth would be much
milder than that.

=mantis=

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