Subject: (urth) Love, Hyacinth, Valeria

From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at cox.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:34:44 +0000

At 02:17 PM 2/20/2003, you wrote:

As for Silk, my memory of TBOTLS is not that good, as I said; but my
>recollection was that the "Hyacinth" Silk loves is largely a creation of his
>imagination.
>
>--Adam

Or perhaps (and rather, I submit) the Hyacinth that Silk loves is her true 
self, which she does not herself see, and constantly abuses. And her 
misperceptions and self-degradations are, horribly, the result of the way 
men have used and abused her.
         Silk loves Hyacinth with "eros," but more with "agape," the love 
of principle that sees into the truth and does not flinch.
         Maybe it's just me, but I myself found the scene where the boy 
Severian meets Valeria to be quite charming. I felt Severian was smitten 
with her, at a childish level, and I was too. Okay, they're not old enough 
for romantic love, and Severian becomes bored with her after 10 years of 
marriage and can't wait to cheat on her. No agape here!
         My point is that, for me anyway, Wolfe is capable of presenting 
rather endearing and affectionate scenes when he wants so. He just doesn't 
very often want to.
         FWIW.

Nutria

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From: cilluff1 at optonline.net <cilluff1 at optonline.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:40:27 +0000

Nutria wrote:

<<My point is that, for me anyway, Wolfe is capable of presenting 
rather endearing and affectionate scenes when he wants so. He just doesn't 
very often want to.>>

I also thought many of the scenes with Severian and Dorcas were quite
charming too -- true, she's his grandmother and he cheats on her to boot,
but still, before you realize they're related it's quite romantic.

- Shell

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From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:16:07 +0000

>of principle that sees into the truth and does not flinch.

Silk did more than flinch--he nearly jumped, from the airship. I agree with
Adam that the Hy Silk fell in love with--at their first meeting--didn't
really exist. It didn't take Silk long to find that out, either, which is
why he despaired on the airship, but by then it was too late.

Let me review the facts. Less than 24 hours after Silk's "enlightenment", at
which time he pledged heart and soul to the Outsider, he fell in love with a
beautiful, naked, junkie whore. Hy neither said or did anything at their
first meeting to inspire love. The most obvious thing she had going for her
was her body, something any normal 23-year-old male could appreciate. The
soiled sheets on her bed should have told him her worth as a human being.
That she "came on" to him, a complete stranger, might have gladdened his
gonads, but the Father Brown in him should have seen beyond that.

But, along with her body, Hy possessed one other important quality--she was
possessed by Kypris at the time of their meeting. This isn't speculation;
Kypris said so when she appeared to Silk in the glass at Orchid's.
Possession by the "love" goddess imbues the possessed with apparently
irresistible qualities. This is the only excuse I can find for Silk falling
so hard for so little, all within a matter of hours after his enlightenment.
Days later, after finding and marrying Hy--which had nothing to do with the
mission given him by the Outsider--when Hy was no longer possessed by
Kypris, Silk realized he had lusted after her at the expense of his
commitment. Without Kypris to add shine to Hy's natural luster, Silk began
to see her for what she was, which wasn't much. The same thing happened to
Auk. He fell in love with Chenille when she was possessed by Kypris, but
when the goddess was gone Chenille wasn't as lovable.

As with Moses's "sin" in the wilderness, Silk was tempted and failed his
God; and, like Moses, he was punished by being denied the Promised Land.
That's the real reason Silk didn't go on the lander. He stayed with Hy
because he was man enough to live with the consequences of his own actions.
And as soon as Hy was dead he was on his way to Blue, however convoluted the
path the Outsider chose for him.

-Roy

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