{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3868", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3868, "subject": "Mattachine Tower", "messages": 6, "voices": 5, "first": "2003-03-01T17:18:42+00:00", "last": "2003-03-03T04:42:45+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2003-03-01T17:18:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mattachine Tower", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "According to the History Channel, the Mattachines were an Italian \ntradition of court jesters who were indulged to \"speak the truth\" when \nappearing masked and hooded. Not to doubt the veracity of the Hitler \nChannel, but has anyone else heard of this, or suspect that it folds \ninto the torturers' tower?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson/gurps/ >\n\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-03-02T00:32:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Mattachine Tower", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Back in the 60s, before the Stonewall Rebellion, before gay liberation of\nany note, the Mattachine Society on the East Coast (and for all I know on\nthe West) was a coded name for a quite sizeable male homosexual club or\ngroup here; I expect the historical note is an ironic nod to being\n\"closeted.\" I doubt that Wolfe knew that!\n\n-alga" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "According to the History Channel, the Mattachines were an Italian\ntradition of court jesters who were indulged to \"speak the truth\" when\nappearing masked and hooded. Not to doubt the veracity of the Hitler\nChannel, but has anyone else heard of this, or suspect that it folds\ninto the torturers' tower?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net" }, "date": "2003-03-02T00:37:34+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Mattachine Tower", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Alice K. Turner wrote:\nBack in the 60s, before the Stonewall Rebellion, before gay liberation of\nany note, the Mattachine Society on the East Coast (and for all I know on\nthe West) was a coded name for a quite sizeable male homosexual club or\ngroup here; I expect the historical note is an ironic nod to being\n\"closeted.\" I doubt that Wolfe knew that!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, they were very specifically associated with sadomasochism.\n\nI had assumed that Wolfe did know about this.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-03-02T03:26:18+00:00", "subject": "Fw: (urth) Mattachine Tower", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I just did a google on this--quite fascinating!\n\n-a-" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Back in the 60s, before the Stonewall Rebellion, before gay liberation of\nany note, the Mattachine Society on the East Coast (and for all I know on\nthe West) was a coded name for a quite sizeable male homosexual club or\ngroup here; I expect the historical note is an ironic nod to being\n\"closeted.\" I doubt that Wolfe knew that!\n\n-alga" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "According to the History Channel, the Mattachines were an Italian\ntradition of court jesters who were indulged to \"speak the truth\" when\nappearing masked and hooded. Not to doubt the veracity of the Hitler\nChannel, but has anyone else heard of this, or suspect that it folds\ninto the torturers' tower?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Bratt Ian", "address": "ian.bratt at colorado.edu" }, "date": "2003-03-02T23:21:36+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Mattachine Tower", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "According to http://www.sbu.ac.uk/stafflag/mattachine.html, the word\nmatachin or matachine has been derived from the Arabic of Moorish Spain,\nin which mutawajjihin, relates to masking oneself.\n\n-Insula" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Alice K. Turner wrote:\nI just did a google on this--quite fascinating!\n\n-a-" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Back in the 60s, before the Stonewall Rebellion, before gay liberation of\nany note, the Mattachine Society on the East Coast (and for all I know on\nthe West) was a coded name for a quite sizeable male homosexual club or\ngroup here; I expect the historical note is an ironic nod to being\n\"closeted.\" I doubt that Wolfe knew that!\n\n-alga" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "According to the History Channel, the Mattachines were an Italian\ntradition of court jesters who were indulged to \"speak the truth\" when\nappearing masked and hooded. Not to doubt the veracity of the Hitler\nChannel, but has anyone else heard of this, or suspect that it folds\ninto the torturers' tower?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tami Whitehead", "address": "razorkittee at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2003-03-03T04:42:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Mattachine Tower", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I, Razorkittee, will tell you what The Man said. Take\nit for what it is worth. \n\nIn the book, The Castle of the Otter, by Gene Wolfe,\non page 28, for Chapter II, he says: \"Matachin\nTower:In a Spanish tradition, matachins are masked\nsword dancers. Some authorities say that the tradition\nis derived from the Moors. Well, maybe. To the other\ninhabitants of the Citadel, the Seekers of Truth and\nPenitence are most visisble on the feast of Holy\nKatharine, when the journeymen, weating their masks,\ndance with their beheading swords.\" \n\nkittee" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- Bratt Ian wrote:\nAccording to\nhttp://www.sbu.ac.uk/stafflag/mattachine.html, the\nword\nmatachin or matachine has been derived from the\nArabic of Moorish Spain,\nin which mutawajjihin, relates to masking oneself.\n\n-Insula\n\n\nOn Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Alice K. Turner wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I just did a google on this--quite fascinating!\n\n-a-" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Back in the 60s, before the Stonewall Rebellion,\nbefore gay liberation of\nany note, the Mattachine Society on the East\nCoast (and for all I know on\nthe West) was a coded name for a quite sizeable\nmale homosexual club or\ngroup here; I expect the historical note is an\nironic nod to being\n\"closeted.\" I doubt that Wolfe knew that!\n\n-alga" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "According to the History Channel, the\nMattachines were an Italian\ntradition of court jesters who were indulged\nto \"speak the truth\" when\nappearing masked and hooded. Not to doubt the\nveracity of the Hitler\nChannel, but has anyone else heard of this, or\nsuspect that it folds\ninto the torturers' tower?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "--\nhttp://www.urth.net/\nTo unsubscribe: send \"unsubscribe\" to\nurth-request at urth.net" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-- \nhttp://www.urth.net/\nTo unsubscribe: send \"unsubscribe\" to" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "urth-request at urth.net" } ] } ] }