{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3873", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3873, "subject": "the book seminar", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "2003-03-03T13:40:40+00:00", "last": "2003-03-04T22:38:41+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Fernando Q. Gouvea", "address": "fqgouvea at colby.edu" }, "date": "2003-03-03T13:40:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the book seminar", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I thought I'd report a little bit about the book seminar I'm\nrunning. In the first session, we discussed \"The Island of Doctor Death and\nOther Stories\", \"Alien Stones\", and \"La Befana\". I found it was harder to\ngenerate discussion than I expected! Most of the students seemed to have\nsettled for reading the stories at a rather superficial level, and were\nsurprised that I wanted to poke at them further. Still, a few seemed to\nhave captured some of the hints (for example, that Daw may not be what he\nseems in \"Alien Stones\", or that he may have intentionally caused the death\nof the empathist). But overall it seems to have gone reasonably well,\nthough I'm hoping that I'll do better at generating discussion with the\nnext batch of stories.\n\nThe next three are \"The Hero as Werwolf\", \"Three Fingers\", and \"The Death\nof Doctor Island\". There are obvious non-literary issues to pursue: genetic\n\"improvements\" for \"Hero\", the Disney corporation and their brethren for\n\"Fingers\", and mental health and utilitarian calculations about who is\nvaluable to society for \"Doctor Island\". Of course, in each case there are\ninteresting literary questions too. Suggestions for avenues to pursue are\nwelcome!\n\nSome questions of my own:\n\n- Does anyone know why Wolfe chose the spelling \"Werwolf\"?\n\n- Is the drug mentioned at the end of \"Three Fingers\" a real drug? If so,\nwhat does it do?\n\n- How should we read the ending of \"Doctor Island\"? Has the boy been\nhelped, or has his personality been destroyed?\n\nFernando" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Fernando Q. Gouvea \nDepartment of Mathematics Editor, FOCUS and MAA Online\nColby College Mathematical Association of America\nWaterville, ME 04901 http://www.maa.org\nfqgouvea at colby.edu \n==========================================================\n\nThe Byzantines hammered away at their hard and orthodox symbols, because\nthey could not be in a mood to believe that men could take a hint. The\nmoderns drag out into lengths and reels of extravagance their new orthodoxy\nof being unorthodox, because they also cannot give a hint -- or take a hint.\nYet all perfect and well-poised art is really a hint.\n -- G. K. Chesterton\n\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2003-03-03T14:36:16+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) the book seminar", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 07:40 AM 3/3/2003, you wrote:\nSome questions of my own:\n\n- Does anyone know why Wolfe chose the spelling \"Werwolf\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Dunno. And I can't help your other questions either. But I do \nrecall that the Hero has a foot wound, and this has messianic overtones in \nthe Bible (and kingly overtones in Greco-Roman history). The last line of \nthe story definitely alludes to the Gospels. The name \"Paul\" might be \nsignificant, given Paul as a distinctive follower of Jesus. But, I don't \nrecall thinking the story was an allegory of any sort. With Wolfe, the \nallusions might be twisted, inverted, or some kind of dark spin on things. \nInterested to know what others might think." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "- Is the drug mentioned at the end of \"Three Fingers\" a real drug? If so,\nwhat does it do?\n\n- How should we read the ending of \"Doctor Island\"? Has the boy been\nhelped, or has his personality been destroyed?\n\nFernando\n\n--\n\nFernando Q. Gouvea\nDepartment of Mathematics Editor, FOCUS and MAA Online\nColby College Mathematical Association of America\nWaterville, ME 04901 http://www.maa.org\nfqgouvea at colby.edu\n==========================================================\n\nThe Byzantines hammered away at their hard and orthodox symbols, because\nthey could not be in a mood to believe that men could take a hint. The\nmoderns drag out into lengths and reels of extravagance their new orthodoxy\nof being unorthodox, because they also cannot give a hint -- or take a hint.\nYet all perfect and well-poised art is really a hint.\n -- G. K. Chesterton\n\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gareth Jelley", "address": "gjelley at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2003-03-03T23:33:38+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) the book seminar", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Fernando Q. Gouvea\" \n- Does anyone know why Wolfe chose the spelling \"Werwolf\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is it just closer to the German word?\n\nNo idea :o) But I'd guess it was something to do with an etymology of the\nword we see more commonly used; or perhaps it is a cognate which is used\nbecause it resonates more with the content \\ style \\ concerns of the story.\n\n\n\nBest,\n\nG." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gareth Jelley", "address": "gjelley at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2003-03-03T23:38:24+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) the book seminar", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Fernando Q. Gouvea\" \nWell, I thought I'd report a little bit about the book seminar I'm\nrunning. In the first session, we discussed \"The Island of Doctor Death\nand\nOther Stories\", \"Alien Stones\", and \"La Befana\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is there an archive on this? I'm currently reading the collection 'The\nIsland of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories', and have read\nthe title story, and most of 'Alien Stones'. Both have really intrigued me,\nbut the first one particularly, because Wolfe (as one would expect) leaves\nso many questions unanswered, and leaves the reader asking so many\nquestions...\n\nI always find it difficult /not/ to read into Wolfe, because he is one of\nthese writers who, in his style of story-telling, invites the reader to\nrummage around between the lines. However, I don't know how much of 'The\nIsland of Doctor Death and Other Stories' I have deciphered, or, in fact, if\nthere is anything to 'decipher'; it may simply be that we are supposed to be\nleft wondering and remembering.\n\nBest,\n\nG.\ngjelley at btopenworld.com\nhttp://members.lycos.co.uk/cavor - updated 14\\02\\02\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/scribeoflight - updated frequently" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gareth Jelley", "address": "gjelley at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2003-03-03T23:45:46+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) the book seminar", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Fernando Q. Gouvea\" \n- Does anyone know why Wolfe chose the spelling \"Werwolf\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This article may be of interest:\n\n'Hellhounds, Werewolves and the Germanic Underworld'\nhttp://www.indigogroup.co.uk/edge/hellhnds.htm\n\nIt is from a website called 'At The Edge' which describes itself as\nexploring \"new interpretations of past and place in archaeology, folklore\nand mythology.\"\n\nThe article seems quite heavy on the word-formation and etymology front, and\nbrings back memories of my Old Norse and Old English studies... But it is\n23:43 here, and my eyes water at the web page :o) I'll have a look at it a\nbit later.\n\nBasically, though, it seems to confirm my thought that the word has been\nused for its closeness to the German form, and thus, probably, for its\nproximity to the Old Norse \\ Old English \\ Germanic roots of the word...\n\nHowever, what I don't know, is where the extra 'e' came from: why is the\nEnglish 'Werewolf' spelt the way it is...\n\nMmmm.\n\nBest,\n\nG.\ngjelley at btopenworld.com\nhttp://members.lycos.co.uk/cavor - updated 14\\02\\02\nhttp://www.livejournal.com/users/scribeoflight - updated frequently" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Richard Horton", "address": "rrhorton at prodigy.net" }, "date": "2003-03-04T22:38:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) the book seminar", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:40:40 -0500, you wrote:\n- Does anyone know why Wolfe chose the spelling \"Werwolf\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The etymology, as far as I can tell, is \"wer\" (man) + \"wulf\" (wolf),\nhence manwolf. As such, why add the \"e\", one might ask?\n\n\n--=20\nRich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard.horton at sff.net\nHome Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton\nAlso visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online =\n(http://www.tangentonline.com)" } ] } ] }