Silk as Typhon

The Urth list — 5 messages, 5 voices, 08 Mar 2003
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3886

Roy C. Lackey08 Mar 2003, 18:27original
2 quoted lines
Don wrote: This has occurred to me, and here is my solution. The Gods in mainframe are not actual visual representations of their scans but archetypal god figures, unless of course Typhon's wife has snakes for hair. The fact that Typhon had a hang-up about his appearance supports this. He was eager to get rid of his second head. Why scan that into Mainframe? It's a problem for consideration, but it's not fatal. The thematic signs IMO point to Silk being Typhon.
Then here is a somewhat more scientific objection. When Silk briefly "died" in that tunnel collapse, he was granted a 'vision' by the Outsider (and it was the Outsider; Pas can't raise the dead) of his "parents". That 'vision' is treated in the text as every bit as valid as Silk's enlightenment. In that vision he saw four parents, not three. The four were his "mother" (who gave birth to the embryo and raised him), his adoptive father (the old Calde Tussah), the "tall" "blue-eyed" man (who was his "biological" father) and the undescribed woman (who was his "biological" mother) (LS3:9). If that woman contributed biological material to the embryo that became Silk, then it is not possible for the embryo to have been a clone of Typhon, or of anyone else. -Roy
Chris08 Mar 2003, 19:02original

↳ follows, by subject match Roy C. Lackey

Roy sensibly objected:
1 quoted line
mother) (LS3:9). If that woman contributed biological material to the embryo that became Silk, then it is not possible for the embryo to have been a clone of Typhon, or of anyone else.
This is a good point, and I think it points back to an older theory that Silk was an embryo that was intended to be a future body for Typhon/Pas after the landing. We already know that Typhon is not fastidious about the genetics of the body his mind inhabits - if anything he considers it an accoutrement or tool, and would want as "souped up" a version as he could get. Whether this was accomplished through eugenics, or some kind of genetic manipulation of his biological parents is impossible to say. I believe, as well, that this is not an insoluble problem in the grand scheme of Don's thesis. Thematically, it amounts to the same thing- Silk was intended to be Typhon, in either case. Of course, there is always the possibility that the people Silk saw were actually Typhon's parents, but it seems highly unlikely that Typhon's parents would have been alive to be scanned into the mainframe; and if they had, they would have had a place in Pas' pantheon. Chris
Lisa Schaffer-Doggett08 Mar 2003, 23:21original

↳ follows, by subject match Chris

11 quoted lines · 1–2 deep
On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 11:02 AM, Chris wrote: Roy sensibly objected:
mother) (LS3:9). If that woman contributed biological material to the embryo that became Silk, then it is not possible for the embryo to have been a clone of Typhon, or of anyone else.
This is a good point, and I think it points back to an older theory that Silk was an embryo that was intended to be a future body for Typhon/Pas after the landing. We already know that Typhon is not fastidious about the genetics of the body his mind inhabits - if anything he considers it an accoutrement or tool, and would want as "souped up" a version as he could get. Whether this was accomplished through eugenics, or some kind of genetic manipulation of his biological parents is impossible to say. I believe, as well, that this is not an insoluble problem in the grand scheme of Don's thesis. Thematically, it amounts to the same thing- Silk was intended to be Typhon, in either case. Of course, there is always the possibility that the people Silk saw were actually Typhon's parents, but it seems highly unlikely that Typhon's parents would have been alive to be scanned into the mainframe; and if they had, they would have had a place in Pas' pantheon. Chris
Don replies, Thank you both for these important considerations. Without a second reading of the text, I don't have enough to work out my theory the way I would like to. Another possibility I have mulled over is that Silk is the son of Typhon instead. They are genetically related though, and I am 100% certain that Silk was meant to be the vessel for Pas. Another thing regarding theophanies. From what I recall they were never very common and the recipients of them all seem to see different things and have a fairly hazy memory of what they saw. So it is highly possible that no one really knows what Pas "looks" like. Personally, I think the 4 parents is a red herring like Dorcas and Ouen, but again I have to read the series with an eye to puzzles before I can argue with any confidence. I just appreciate you taking me seriously enough to reply at all.
Andrew Bollen11 Mar 2003, 12:36original

↳ follows, by subject match Lisa Schaffer-Doggett

Roy, seraphic & IMO irrefutable, writes:
2 quoted lines
Then here is a somewhat more scientific objection. When Silk briefly "died" in that tunnel collapse, he was granted a 'vision' by the Outsider (and it was the Outsider; Pas can't raise the dead) of his "parents". That 'vision' is treated in the text as every bit as valid as Silk's enlightenment. In that vision he saw four parents, not three. The four were his "mother" (who gave birth to the embryo and raised him), his adoptive father (the old Calde Tussah), the "tall" "blue-eyed" man (who was his "biological" father) and the undescribed woman (who was his "biological" mother) (LS3:9). If that woman contributed biological material to the embryo that became Silk, then it is not possible for the embryo to have been a clone of Typhon, or of anyone else.
The only reason I have seen for thinking that Silk might be a clone is the vessel-of-Pas theory. But why should Pas want such a vessel? It is clear to me that the mainframe is the Olympus of these "gods". Like the Greek gods, they may foray out in human or animal guise, but this is slumming (or desperation). Who would willingly abandon Olympus forever? Pas' reign on Blue is to be heralded by the construction of a new mainframe/Olympus, not by the appearance of a fleshified Passilk. (BTW - Passilk: homoousios or homoiousios?)
Jeff Wilson12 Mar 2003, 01:04original

↳ follows, by subject match Andrew Bollen

4 quoted lines
From: "Roy C. Lackey" <rclackey at stic.net> Then here is a somewhat more scientific objection. When Silk briefly "died" in that tunnel collapse, he was granted a 'vision' by the Outsider (and it was the Outsider; Pas can't raise the dead) of his "parents". That 'vision' is treated in the text as every bit as valid as Silk's enlightenment. In that vision he saw four parents, not three. The four were his "mother" (who gave birth to the embryo and raised him), his adoptive father (the old Calde Tussah), the "tall" "blue-eyed" man (who was his "biological" father) and the undescribed woman (who was his "biological" mother) (LS3:9). If that woman contributed biological material to the embryo that became Silk, then it is not possible for the embryo to have been a clone of Typhon, or of anyone else.
It =is= possible, if the biological parents are also =Typhon's= biological parents. (Or whoever's.)
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com < http://www.io.com/~jwilson/gurps/ > --

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