{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3901", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3901, "subject": "Three Fingers", "messages": 7, "voices": 4, "first": "2003-03-16T00:38:38+00:00", "last": "2003-03-18T22:56:10+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gareth Jelley", "address": "gjelley at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2003-03-16T00:38:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello All,\n\nI read 'Three Fingers' today, and I have to say I'm perplexed. That is my\nresponse :o) At least, that is all I can come up with, at this time... I\nthought it was an intriguing, well-written story, and it kept me reading,\nand I thought the confrontation at the end was very effective... But what\ndid it mean? Or, what /could/ it mean? What do people think of it?\n\nVery Best,\n\nGareth.\n\ngjelley at btopenworld.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-03-17T05:23:10+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: \"Gareth Jelley\" \n\nA fine Whorl surname, should you be inclined that way. Where is this story\nto be found?\n-alga\n---------\nWe like March, his shoes are purple,\n He is new and high;\nMakes he mud for dog and peddler,\n Makes he forest dry.\n--E.D.\n--------" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I read 'Three Fingers' today, and I have to say I'm perplexed. That is my\nresponse :o) At least, that is all I can come up with, at this time... I\nthought it was an intriguing, well-written story, and it kept me reading,\nand I thought the confrontation at the end was very effective... But what\ndid it mean? Or, what /could/ it mean? What do people think of it?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2003-03-17T15:01:22+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The story is in THE ISLAND OF DOCTOR DEATH AND OTHER STORIES AND OTHER STORIES.\n\nIIRC the story has been covered a bit here in the past -- you might check\nthe archives and see what has been said.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gareth Jelley", "address": "gjelley at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2003-03-17T19:49:49+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Michael Andre-Driussi\" \nThe story is in THE ISLAND OF DOCTOR DEATH AND OTHER STORIES AND OTHER\nSTORIES." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've just finished 'Three Fingers', and am working my way through\ntIoDDaOSaOS, in order. Each of the stories has been perplexing in its own\nway, but 'Three Fingers' left me more satisfied, perhaps, than others I've\nread so far.\n\nI've read the archived messages, and I have to admit that I hadn't thought\nof them as Disney villains, specifically... I'd simply pictured them as\nsort-of generic bad-guys... The Disney link is no doubt there, it's just\nthat there are certain things in stories that no matter how clearly\nsign-posted, I always miss.\n\nBut what do people think about this passage, and what it means?\n\n\"He tried to swallow it before she could get in another, and found that it\nhad become a red jelly bean too, and went down easily.\"\n\nDo you think it is supposed to imply that the boy's perceptions are\nchanging, and that he is, thus, delusional? Or are his perceptions being\nchanged. Is he mad, basically?\n\nIs the whole denoument, basically, just a confrontation between three caring\nadults, and one mad child; and is the child, because he is delusional,\nimagining this confrontation in terms and codes and conventions that he is\nfamiliar with (and obssessed by)?\n\nSo all 'bad people' become bad people from cartoons, and all the nasty pills\npeople use become the sweets, dangerous in the same way the sweets in\nHansel-and-Gretel are dangerous?\n\nI'm intrigued, anyway, and would be interested to hear from others :o)\n\nBest,\n\nG.\n\nhttp://scribeoflight.livejournal.com - updated frequently" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2003-03-18T00:51:13+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Gareth Jelley wrote:\nDo you think it is supposed to imply that the boy's perceptions are\nchanging, and that he is, thus, delusional? Or are his perceptions being\nchanged. Is he mad, basically?\n\nIs the whole denoument, basically, just a confrontation between three caring\nadults, and one mad child; and is the child, because he is delusional,\nimagining this confrontation in terms and codes and conventions that he is\nfamiliar with (and obssessed by)?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The whole idea of ending a story with the revelation that the viewpoint\ncharacter is insane and has halucinated the whole story is so cliche and\n(usually) so sterile, that I'm tempted to read another meta-interpretation\ninto the ending.\n\nPerhaps we're supposed to imagine Wolfe turning in this story in which\nDisney is the villain, but Disney is too scary and powerful so the editor\nforces Wolfe to tack on a \"not really, it's just the crazy delusion of a\nlunatic\" ending.\n\nNote that the very next story in the collection (\"Death of Dr. Island\"),\nis one which gets weirder and weirder for several pages, constantly\nforcing you to revise your hypotheses of where/when the protagonist is and\nwhat is going on and what sort of universe it is. The answer is that old\ncliche, that the protagonist is insane and in a mental institution --\nexcept the twist is that none of the weirdness is the protagonist's\ndelusion.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gareth Jelley", "address": "gjelley at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2003-03-18T01:10:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Michael Straight\" \nNote that the very next story in the collection (\"Death of Dr. Island\"),\nis one which gets weirder and weirder for several pages, constantly\nforcing you to revise your hypotheses of where/when the protagonist is and\nwhat is going on and what sort of universe it is. The answer is that old\ncliche, that the protagonist is insane and in a mental institution --\nexcept the twist is that none of the weirdness is the protagonist's\ndelusion." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I haven't read that one yet :o)\n\nI don't mind about Spoilers. Thankfully ;o)\n\nre: delusions - I don't think that /is/ an answer, or plausible reading, but\nit struck me as being one way to explain what is going on...\n\nPersonally, I've got no idea how to read it - the most plausible reading\nseems to be that we're supposed to be left clueless. A reading which can be\napplied to many of Wolfe's stories.\n\nBest,\n\nG." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gareth Jelley", "address": "gjelley at btopenworld.com" }, "date": "2003-03-18T22:56:10+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Alice K. Turner\" \nA fine Whorl surname, should you be inclined that way. Where is this story\nto be found?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What would I need do to be inclined that way? I'm perplexed :o)\n\nBut yes, it is an intriiiiiguing surname, to say the least :o)\n\nBest,\n\nG." } ] } ] }