{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3907", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3907, "subject": "Severian as New Sun", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2003-04-02T21:38:14+00:00", "last": "2003-04-05T02:59:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matt DeLuca", "address": "archdragon at wotmania.com" }, "date": "2003-04-02T21:38:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian as New Sun", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Im still trying to figure out the history and events that resulted in Severian becoming the New Sun. I have a few questions:\n\n1) What is the New Sun\n2) What are his talents/abilities\n3) Is there any specific prophecy\n4) What is the Claw?\n5) What is the New Sun supposed to do?\n6) How does Severian do it?\n7) What is the mystery of the guild?\n8) How can Severian use the Claw in the books before Urth of New Sun\n9) Any info on the Pancreator?\n\nany information on this would be welcomed.\n\nAnd i have read the series approximately 11 times. I'm still slightly confused about the New Sun....\n\n_____________________________________________________________\nhttp://wotmania.com\nfeed your wot addiction" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Brandon Mason", "address": "suck_at_life at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2003-04-05T02:59:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian as New Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "1)What is the New Sun?\n \nI have only read the series twice, but I was always\nunder the interpretation that the New Sun is the NEW\nSUN itself ( that is, the old sun with the white\nfountain placed in it, thus making it new) and also it\nis Severian, who is called the New Sun because he\nbrought it.\n \n2)What are his talents/abilities?\n \nWell, there are many that are listed within the text\nof Urth of the New Sun. I suppose some would say that\nhe has the ability to be able to work miracles. But I\nthink that there are probably many more things that\nSeverian can do that are not listed within the text,\nusing the power of the white fountain. I would go so\nfar as to say that he probably has the ability\n(whether he uses it or not) to be able to do anything\nthat he wants.\n \n3)Is there any specific prophecy?\n \nHmmm...I don't have the text with me right now, but I\ndon't think so. The only prophecy that there may be\nabout the New Sun or Conciliator is the one that\nSeverian would have spread on his own (about himself)\nin his brief period of teaching in Urth of the New Sun\n(in the past.) I have always assumed that he probably\ntime traveled even more after the telling of the tale\nin his memoirs and probably even after he wrote the\nmemoirs themselves. He does say somewhere in Urth of\nthe New Sun after the incident at the Chowder Pot that\nhe thought he saw himself out in the hall with the men\nthat tried to restrain Zama. What I am getting at is\nI have a feeling that Severian might have went back\ninto time and spread the word about himself so that\npeople would know what to expect.\n \n4)What is the Claw?\n \nThe Claw of the Conciliator is the thorn that Severian\npicked up from the rose bush when he was walking along\nthe beach of Ocean. In Urth of the Sun when he is\nsent back to Typhon's time after his capture he gives\nthat same thorn from the rose bush to one of Typhon's\nsoldiers. This thorn somehow ends up in the hands of\nthe Pelerines, and is what Severian later finds in the\ndistant future when he crashes into their temple and\ntries to return it to them.\n \n5)What is the New Sun supposed to do?\n \nThe New Sun as Severian or the New Sun as the New Sun\nitself? Severian is called the New Sun because he was\nthe one to bring it, but if you are talking of the\nother meaning (the New Sun as the New Sun) it is\nsupposed to bring a cleansing to Urth and restore the\nold sun's light. I've always thought the prophecy\nabout the New Sun is somewhat like the prophecy of\nAnakin in Star Wars Episode I and II, no one really\nknows if the coming of the New Sun will be good or\nbad.\n \n6)How does Severian do it?\n \nI know I might not be totally answering this question\n(as you might want a specific) but in Urth of the Sun\nit is explained that Severian will (mind the\nparaphrase) \"just know\" how to do it. Its something\nthat is innate within him, and I believe that Tzadkiel\nplaced the knowledge of how to bring the white\nfountain closer (or the ability to do so) in Severian\nwhen he resurrected him as an eidolon. re-read the\nsection in Urth of the Sun after Severian falls\nthrough the ship (and dies) and I think that is where\nhe gains the knowledge.\n \n7)What is the mystery of the guild?\n \nEXCELLENT QUESION...and one that I think we can only\nspeculate to be able to find an answer to. After\nreading Urth of the Sun, (in which Severian meets Ymar\nat the guild) I have always had an idea (and I am sure\nmost will agree that it is not a good one) that it has\nsomething to do with the bringing up of Autarchs. Not\nTyphon, mind you, who is a monarch, but the new\ngeneration of Autarchs that began with Ymar and ended\nwith Severian. Also, I have always thought that\nSeverian himself might have had something to do with\nthe formation of the guild of torturers (even though\nthere is not a lot of textual evidence to support it.)\n I just thought it was interesting that when he became\nApu Punchau in urth of the New Sun his people\nstrangled him. Also, his mother is named Catherine\ncorrect? And the Holy Patron Saint for Order of\nSeekers of Truth and Penitence is Katharine. Other\nthan that, the only secret that I can remember within\nthe text that Severian reveals is that, \"torturers\nOBEY.\"\n \n8)How can Severian use the Claw in books before Urth\nof the New Sun?\n \nI think it is explained in Urth of the New Sun that he\nis drawing off of future power (which is actually\nrooted in the past.)\n \n9)Any info on the Pancreator?\n \nAt the end of Urth of the Sun, Severian's friends the\nHeirodules explain to him that who he calls the\nPancreator (or maybe it is the Increate, not sure,)\nthey call \"God.\" So the Pancreator is God, right? I\nwas always under the assumption (and I am probably\nwrong about this as well) that the Pancreator = God,\nthe Conciliator is a Jesus figure, and the Increate\nrepresented the Holy Spirit." } ] } ] }