Subject: (urth) FW: Severian as New Sun(Brandon Mason)

From: Matt DeLuca <archdragon at wotmania.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 11:26:43 +0000

Hey man, for some reason it won't let me join the Urth list, so I 
thought I would go ahead and forward this...maybe you can post it for me
 or something.

	1)What is the New Sun?
	 
	I have only read the series twice, but I was always under the 
interpretation that the New Sun is the NEW SUN itself ( that is, the old
 sun with the white fountain placed in it, thus making it new) and also 
it is Severian, who is called the New Sun because he brought it.
	 
	2)What are his talents/abilities?
	 
	Well, there are many that are listed within the text of Urth of the New
 Sun.  I suppose some would say that he has the ability to be able to 
work miracles.  But I think that there are probably many more things 
that Severian can do that are not listed within the text, using the 
power of the white fountain.  I would go so far as to say that he 
probably has the ability (whether he uses it or not) to be able to do 
anything that he wants.
	 
	3)Is there any specific prophecy?
	 
	Hmmm...I don't have the text with me right now, but I don't think so.  
The only prophecy that there may be about the New Sun or Conciliator is 
the one that Severian would have spread on his own (about himself) in 
his brief period of teaching in Urth of the New Sun (in the past.)  I 
have always assumed that he probably time traveled even more after the 
telling of the tale in his memoirs and probably even after he wrote the 
memoirs themselves.  He does say somewhere in Urth of the New Sun after 
the incident at the Chowder Pot that he thought he saw himself out in 
the hall with the men that tried to restrain Zama.  What I am getting at
 is I have a feeling that Severian might have went back into time and 
spread the word about himself so that people would know what to expect.
	 
	4)What is the Claw?
	 
	The Claw of the Conciliator is the thorn that Severian picked up from 
the rose bush when he was walking along the beach of Ocean.  In Urth of 
the Sun when he is sent back to Typhon's time after his capture he gives
 that same thorn from the rose bush to one of Typhon's soldiers.  This 
thorn somehow ends up in the hands of the Pelerines, and is what 
Severian later finds in the distant future when he crashes into their 
temple and tries to return it to them.
	 
	5)What is the New Sun supposed to do?
	 
	The New Sun as Severian or the New Sun as the New Sun itself?  Severian
 is called the New Sun because he was the one to bring it, but if you 
are talking of the other meaning (the New Sun as the New Sun) it is 
supposed to bring a cleansing to Urth and restore the old sun's light.  
I've always thought the prophecy about the New Sun is somewhat like the 
prophecy of Anakin in Star Wars Episode I and II, no one really knows if
 the coming of the New Sun will be good or bad.
	 
	6)How does Severian do it?
	 
	I know I might not be totally answering this question (as you might 
want a specific) but in Urth of the Sun it is explained that Severian  
will (mind the paraphrase) "just know" how to do it.  Its something that
 is innate within him, and I believe that Tzadkiel placed the knowledge 
of how to bring the white fountain closer (or the ability to do so) in 
Severian when he resurrected him as an eidolon.  re-read the section in 
Urth of the Sun after Severian falls through the ship (and dies) and I 
think that is where he gains the knowledge.
	 
	7)What is the mystery of the guild?
	 
	EXCELLENT QUESION...and one that I think we can only speculate to be 
able to find an answer to.  After reading Urth of the Sun, (in which 
Severian meets Ymar at the guild) I have always had an idea (and I am 
sure most will agree that it is not a good one) that it has something to
 do with the bringing up of Autarchs.  Not Typhon, mind you, who is a 
monarch, but the new generation of Autarchs that began with Ymar and 
ended with Severian.  Also, I have always thought that Severian himself 
might have had something to do with the formation of the guild of 
torturers (even though there is not a lot of textual evidence to support
 it.)  I just thought it was interesting that when he became Apu Punchau
 in urth of the New Sun his people strangled him.  Also, his mother is 
named Catherine correct?  And the Holy Patron Saint for Order of Seekers
 of Truth and Penitence is Katharine.  Other than that, the only secret 
that I can remember within the text that Severian reveals is that, "torturers
 OBEY."
	 
	8)How can Severian use the Claw in books before Urth of the New Sun?
	 
	I think it is explained in Urth of the New Sun that he is drawing off 
of future power (which is actually rooted in the past.)
	 
	9)Any info on the Pancreator?
	 
	At the end of Urth of the Sun, Severian's friends the Heirodules 
explain to him that who he calls the Pancreator (or maybe it is the 
Increate, not sure,) they call "God."  So the Pancreator is God, right?
  I was always under the assumption (and I am probably wrong about this 
as well) that the Pancreator = God, the Conciliator is a Jesus figure, 
and the Increate represented the Holy Spirit.

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From: Josh Geller <dclxvi at dclxvi.best.vwh.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 11:58:00 +0000

> it is Severian, who is called the New Sun because he brought it.

And it is a specific avatar, that is a specific human manifestation of
celestial forces.

> work miracles.

All of his miracles have to do with time and his peculiar relationship
with time.

  But I think that there are probably many more things
> probably has the ability (whether he uses it or not) to be able to do

It doesn't say that he does. Perhaps he can only do certain things at
certain times.

> spread the word about himself so that people would know what to expect.

Perhaps. Or there might be different Severians from different time tracks,
or something even more exotic.

> temple and tries to return it to them.

Technically speaking, the Claw is a relic of the Conciliator.

> supposed to bring a cleansing to Urth and restore the old sun's light.

Or destroy the World, depending on your point of view.

>  the coming of the New Sun will be good or bad.

Or like the prophecy or Christ in the Apokalypsis.

> think that is where he gains the knowledge.

Perhaps.

>                       [...] Severian reveals is that, "torturers
>  OBEY."

This is how they justify spending their lives doing horrible things.

I suppose it is also indicative/predictive of Severian's relationship with
God.

> of future power (which is actually rooted in the past.)

The White Fountain is traveling towards the Old Sun even then.

> and the Increate represented the Holy Spirit.

The Conciliator is a manifestation of the mystical Body of Christ, the
other two the other two members of the Trinity.

.

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From: Brandon Mason <suck_at_life at yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 00:46:42 +0000

Thanks for posting my message Matt, after I sent that
e-mail to you I managed to get registered with a
different e-mail account.  And thanks for expanding on
and clarifying my answers Josh.

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