{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3920", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3920, "subject": "Sado Island", "messages": 5, "voices": 3, "first": "2003-04-10T13:13:03+00:00", "last": "2003-04-13T03:07:31+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nigel Price", "address": "nigel.aprice at virgin.net" }, "date": "2003-04-10T13:13:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Sado Island", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "About six years ago, there was a discussion on the list of the poetry quoted\nin \"The Death of Dr. Island\" which was initiated by alga. As far as I could\ntell, no one was able to pin down the source of the story's closing haiku.\nHas there been any progress since then? Anyone know about these lines?\n\nI gather that there was a massacre of allied POWs on Sado Island towards the\nend of WWII, but have no idea whether that is in the least bit relevant. The\nPOWs were being used as forced labour in a mine on the island and were\napparently killed when the camp guards deliberately dynamited the mine while\nthe POWs were working in it. Could be - probably is - entirely irrelevant to\nTDoDI, but I thought that I'd mention it.\n\nNigel" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-04-11T01:07:10+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Sado Island", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "About six years ago, there was a discussion on the list of the poetry\nquoted\nin \"The Death of Dr. Island\" which was initiated by alga. As far as I\ncould\ntell, no one was able to pin down the source of the story's closing haiku.\nHas there been any progress since then? Anyone know about these lines?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Six years--gosh, are we all six years older? Surely not! Post the list,\nNigel, for the Web is six thousand times bigger than it was six years ago\nand I will do a search. (I've been singing \"Abdul Abulbul Amir\" all\nafternoon after getting the words and tune off Google--do not forget, my\nfriends, that the sons of the prophet are brave men and bold.)\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "silk tree", "address": "albizia at feafaroth.org" }, "date": "2003-04-11T12:08:37+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Sado Island", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 08:07 PM, Alice K. Turner wrote:\nSix years--gosh, are we all six years older? Surely not! Post the =\nlist," }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "oops. I posted from the wrong address.\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0003/0197.shtml\nSeas are cold tonight...\nStretching over Sado island\nSilent clouds of stars.\n\n\nhttp://www.worldhaikureview.org/pages/whcjapan15.shtml\n\nhaiku about Tanabata (Star Festival) appears in the chapter of =20\nEchigo=A0 Road in Basho's\nOku no Hosomichi: The Narrow Road to Oku\naraumi ya Sado ni yokotau amanogawa (Basho)\n\nAraumi ya: wild sea\nSado ni yokotau: stretching to Sado Isle\nAmanogawa: the Milky Way (literally)\n\nCould be a pastiche of Basho?\n\nI will ask some poetry friends.\n\nmimosa=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-04-12T21:46:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Sado Island", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 08:07 PM, Alice K. Turner wrote:\nSix years--gosh, are we all six years older? Surely not! Post the list," }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "oops. I posted from the wrong address.\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0003/0197.shtml\nSeas are cold tonight...\nStretching over Sado island\nSilent clouds of stars.\n\n\nhttp://www.worldhaikureview.org/pages/whcjapan15.shtml\n\nhaiku about Tanabata (Star Festival) appears in the chapter of\nEchigo Road in Basho's\nOku no Hosomichi: The Narrow Road to Oku\naraumi ya Sado ni yokotau amanogawa (Basho)\n\nAraumi ya: wild sea\nSado ni yokotau: stretching to Sado Isle\nAmanogawa: the Milky Way (literally)\n\nCould be a pastiche of Basho?\n\nI will ask some poetry friends.\n\nMimosa:\nIt is not a pastiche of Basho. It is the man himself (17th c.), and this is\na very famous poem. Here are a few more translations.\n\n\nHigh over wild seas\nsurrounding Sado Island:\nthe river of heaven\n\n the rough sea -\n flowing toward Sado Isle\n the River of Heaven\n\n\n\n rough sea\n the Milky Way is crossing over\n to Sado\n\n\n\n And here is a tribute to it by a modern poet named Hoshino Tsubaki\n\n\n\n Sado Isle in view\n day stretches to an end\n on the vast sea\n\n (English version by ST & DWB)\n\n sado=Sado Island, north of Niigata; mie-te=has come in view;\noo-unabara=a big ocean; chijitsu=lengthening day, sunset getting later, a\nspring kigo; kana=kireji, exclamation (Tsubaki is obviously conscious of\nBasho's haiku: araumi ya Sado ni yokotau ama no kawa, or rough sea/ over\nSado Island/ milky way)\n\n As you gathered from the six-year-ago posts, the other fragments are\nfrom Milton's \"Il Pensoroso\" and Tennyson's \"Enoch Arden.\" I think the Basho\npoem and the Tsubaki tribute are both intended to evoke feelings of humility\nat our small place in the universe, which is certainly a theme in the Urth\nseries.\n\n -alga\n\n\n\n -alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "silk tree", "address": "albizia at feafaroth.org" }, "date": "2003-04-13T03:07:31+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Sado Island", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Saturday, April 12, 2003, at 04:46 PM, Alice K. Turner wrote:\nhttp://www.worldhaikureview.org/pages/whcjapan15.shtml" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It is not a pastiche of Basho. It is the man himself (17th c.), and \nthis is\na very famous poem. Here are a few more translations." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have been wondering why Wolfe translated the wild sea as\ncold sea? I have not read the short story, maybe it would be obvious\nif I had.\n\nbtw, that page where I found the Basho haiku explains about Sado island \nand\nthe Star Festival:\n\n\"The Milky Way (according to an ancient legend associated with Star\nFestival) excites pity for the Altair-Vega couple. They can meet only\nonce a year at the time of the Star Festival called Tanabata in East \nAsia.\nSado recalls the sadness of noble people who were exiled there, such as\nthe famous Noh-dancer Zeami or Saint Nichiren (Buddhist).\"\n\nI looked this up on google and found that the festival is on July 7th \n(so\nit's not in winter (was wondering if that could explain the cold.) but \none\ninteresting thing about the legend is that if it rains on that day, the \ncouple\nwill be prevented from meeting.\n\nhttp://www.watanabegumi.co.jp/jpculture/tanabata/tanabata.html\n\nthe translations you found...I like this one the best.\n\n rough sea\n the Milky Way is crossing over\n to Sado\n\nI am going to check my the book of haiku I have translated by Hass to \nsee\nif this Basho is in there. I would like to see what he has to say about \nit.\n\nAnyway, in this poem since the sea is rough, perhaps it is raining. And\nsince it set on Sado, it is even more sad due to the mortal people who \nare\nexiled there." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "[...] As you gathered from the six-year-ago posts, the other \nfragments are\nfrom Milton's \"Il Pensoroso\" and Tennyson's \"Enoch Arden.\" I think the \nBasho\npoem and the Tsubaki tribute are both intended to evoke feelings of \nhumility\nat our small place in the universe, which is certainly a theme in the \nUrth\nseries." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mimosa" } ] } ] }