{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3925", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3925, "subject": "Botanical Gardens", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2003-04-11T13:08:00+00:00", "last": "2003-04-15T10:40:37+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Che Monro", "address": "flirt at technologist.com" }, "date": "2003-04-11T13:08:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Botanical Gardens", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wise Ones:\n\nThe Botanical Gardens in Shadow of the Torturer was one of the more \nmysterious locations visited. It was not revealed whether the visitor \ntravelled through time and space in the various exhibits, or whether they \nwere in fact some kind of cunning and deceptive recreation of other times \nand places.\n\nEither explanation would seem to be possible, given textual evidence, which \nis, no doubt, deliberately ambiguous.\n\nWhat interests me is the people who get \"lost\" in the exhibits and become \npart of them. Severian recounts that he feels particularly at home and \n\"part of\" one barren, rocky and seemingly empty exhibit. Assuming that all \nof the exhibits are of real places and times, I wonder which place and time \nit is that Severian is attracted to.\n\nIt's my belief that knowing this would possibly be another significant clue \nto his character and symbolic meaning.\n\nChe\n\nChé Franz Joseph Monro -- http://www.chemonro.com\nche at chemonro.com -- flirt at technologist.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Joshuafalchion", "address": "joshuafalchion at aol.com" }, "date": "2003-04-15T04:43:40+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Botanical Gardens", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The connection between Severian and the Sand Garden would seem, to me, no \nmore (or less!) complicated than the connection between the Conciliator and \nthe claw, for it is there that he encounters for the first, unconscious, time \nthe thorny bush that he later encounters on the beach in CITADEL. Of \nsomewhat more interest to me is the curious fact that the two people \nlistening to the naked man in the hut have names that are clearly from \"our \ntime\": Robert and Marie. They also reference Paris, where Robert \"used to \nbe a student\"; there is also the winged mail plane to tantalize us. What I \nwonder is, are these two people based on real people (a pair of artists or \nwriters, perhaps)?\n\nAlso, on an unrelated subject, those readers disinterested in symmetry will \nprobably not care, but it may prove a small detail to add to the endless \narguments about the ties between Severian, Typhon, and Silk: the event where \nSeverian encounters the corpse of Typhon on the mountain, the boy Severian is \nkilled, and Severian speaks with and assassinates the revived Typhon takes \nplace in the exact middle of the cycle of five books that make up the whole \nNew Sun series. Since I have a writer's interest in symmetry, this interests \nme; but I understand if it seems less than relevant to the rest of you. \nStill, such a connective between the New Sun and the Long and Short Sun \nbooks, in such a central position, seems relevant to me.\n\nBut who can say?\n\nJoshua the Falchion" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2003-04-15T05:42:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Botanical Gardens", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I also was intrigued by the couple in the Gardens, but I can't place them.\n\nAs far as the symmetry, it's not that I discount it, it's just that this is \none of those rare cases where the author's intention can't be ignored. \nSpecifically, at the time that book was written, it was meant to be a 4 book \nseries. Even after the series was done, Wolfe was against writing another \nnovel because to his mind the series was done.\n\nSymmetry as a matter of design interests me, but Wolfe's books already offer \nso much in the way of abstract and mysterious connections that I can't bring \nmyself to start bringing accidental factors into it as well.\n\nChris (still unable to choose a proper name)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, on an unrelated subject, those readers disinterested in symmetry will\nprobably not care, but it may prove a small detail to add to the endless\narguments about the ties between Severian, Typhon, and Silk: the event \nwhere\nSeverian encounters the corpse of Typhon on the mountain, the boy Severian \nis\nkilled, and Severian speaks with and assassinates the revived Typhon takes\nplace in the exact middle of the cycle of five books that make up the whole\nNew Sun series. Since I have a writer's interest in symmetry, this \ninterests\nme; but I understand if it seems less than relevant to the rest of you.\nStill, such a connective between the New Sun and the Long and Short Sun\nbooks, in such a central position, seems relevant to me.\n\nBut who can say?\n\nJoshua the Falchion\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Malco", "address": "nastler at yahoo.dk" }, "date": "2003-04-15T10:40:37+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Botanical Gardens", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I remember thinking that the fact that the Sand Garden\nwas not yet completed was significant. Will Severian\n(or what he becomes) complete this exhibit?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " --- Che Monro wrote:\nSeverian recounts that he feels\nparticularly at home and \n\"part of\" one barren, rocky and seemingly empty\nexhibit. Assuming that all \nof the exhibits are of real places and times, I\nwonder which place and time \nit is that Severian is attracted to.\n\nIt's my belief that knowing this would possibly be\nanother significant clue \nto his character and symbolic meaning.\n\nChe" } ] } ] }