Subject: (urth) Botanical Gardens

From: Che Monro <flirt at technologist.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:08:00 +0000

Wise Ones:

The Botanical Gardens in Shadow of the Torturer was one of the more 
mysterious locations visited. It was not revealed whether the visitor 
travelled through time and space in the various exhibits, or whether they 
were in fact some kind of cunning and deceptive recreation of other times 
and places.

Either explanation would seem to be possible, given textual evidence, which 
is, no doubt, deliberately ambiguous.

What interests me is the people who get "lost" in the exhibits and become 
part of them. Severian recounts that he feels particularly at home and 
"part of" one barren, rocky and seemingly empty exhibit. Assuming that all 
of the exhibits are of real places and times, I wonder which place and time 
it is that Severian is attracted to.

It's my belief that knowing this would possibly be another significant clue 
to his character and symbolic meaning.

Che

Ché Franz Joseph Monro -- http://www.chemonro.com
che at chemonro.com    --     flirt at technologist.com

--

---

From: Joshuafalchion <joshuafalchion at aol.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 04:43:40 +0000

The connection between Severian and the Sand Garden would seem, to me, no 
more (or less!) complicated than the connection between the Conciliator and 
the claw, for it is there that he encounters for the first, unconscious, time 
the thorny bush that he later encounters on the beach in CITADEL.  Of 
somewhat more interest to me is the curious fact that the two people 
listening to the naked man in the hut have names that are clearly from "our 
time":  Robert and Marie.  They also reference Paris, where Robert "used to 
be a student"; there is also the winged mail plane to tantalize us.  What I 
wonder is, are these two people based on real people (a pair of artists or 
writers, perhaps)?

Also, on an unrelated subject, those readers disinterested in symmetry will 
probably not care, but it may prove a small detail to add to the endless 
arguments about the ties between Severian, Typhon, and Silk:  the event where 
Severian encounters the corpse of Typhon on the mountain, the boy Severian is 
killed, and Severian speaks with and assassinates the revived Typhon takes 
place in the exact middle of the cycle of five books that make up the whole 
New Sun series.  Since I have a writer's interest in symmetry, this interests 
me; but I understand if it seems less than relevant to the rest of you.  
Still, such a connective between the New Sun and the Long and Short Sun 
books, in such a central position, seems relevant to me.

But who can say?

Joshua the Falchion

--

---

From: Chris <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 05:42:56 +0000

I also was intrigued by the couple in the Gardens, but I can't place them.

As far as the symmetry, it's not that I discount it, it's just that this is 
one of those rare cases where the author's intention can't be ignored. 
Specifically, at the time that book was written, it was meant to be a 4 book 
series. Even after the series was done, Wolfe was against writing another 
novel because to his mind the series was done.

Symmetry as a matter of design interests me, but Wolfe's books already offer 
so much in the way of abstract and mysterious connections that I can't bring 
myself to start bringing accidental factors into it as well.

Chris (still unable to choose a proper name)

>books, in such a central position, seems relevant to me.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

--

---

From: Malco <nastler at yahoo.dk>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:40:37 +0000

I remember thinking that the fact that the Sand Garden
was not yet completed was significant. Will Severian
(or what he becomes) complete this exhibit?

 --- Che Monro <flirt at technologist.com> wrote:
> Severian recounts that he feels
> particularly at home and 

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

--