{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3962", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3962, "subject": "Greetings!", "messages": 6, "voices": 3, "first": "2003-04-21T19:10:28+00:00", "last": "2003-05-28T23:11:09+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Oren Douek", "address": "orend at axelero.hu" }, "date": "2003-04-21T19:10:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Greetings!", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Greetings!\n\nI'm new to this list. I actually stumbled upon it while googling for John\nCrowley a few months ago. I was reading Little, Big back then (great book!)\nand was looking for answers to some questions I had about it (I still have\nsome actually, and might post them here a bit later, if it's alright;\nhaven't read the FAQ yet I must admit). I was surprised I found such a\nlively discussion about Crowley on this board, and answers to some of my\nquestions!\n\nAnyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of the\nTorturer. And I have a question about something on the first page actually\n\n\nWho were the characters who said the following two phrases:\n\n \"And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd send\nto\n Master Gurloes.\"\n \"But why would the guard leave?\"\n\nI guess that when I get used to Wolfe's style I wouldn't have to ask such\ntrivial questions! But until then...\n\nCheerio,\n\nOren\n\nP.S. I also had a chance to read The Best Introduction to the Mountains last\nweek. I really liked it!" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-04-22T02:00:16+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Greetings!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From Oren:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm new to this list. I actually stumbled upon it while googling for John\nCrowley a few months ago. I was reading Little, Big back then (great\nbook!)\nand was looking for answers to some questions I had about it (I still have\nsome actually, and might post them here a bit later, if it's alright;\nhaven't read the FAQ yet I must admit). I was surprised I found such a\nlively discussion about Crowley on this board, and answers to some of my\nquestions!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi Oren,\nNice to have someone who falls upon a list by accident feel so curious that\nhe (a) signs up and (b) starts right in reading a new author--do you realize\nthat you have committed to a huge number of books in this Wolfe sequence?!\nOne of the reasons there's a lot about Crowley here is that Michael\nAndre-Driussi (mantis) and I, drawing on the help of four other members of\nthe list (and many outsiders) put together a big, pretty serious book about\nhim. But if you want a small *cheap!!* prototype of that book, write to\nMichael directly at mantis at sirius.fiction.com. $5 plus, probably, some\nshipping, will make you a wise man." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of the\nTorturer. And I have a question about something on the first page actually\n\n\nWho were the characters who said the following two phrases:\n\n \"And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd\nsend\nto\n Master Gurloes.\"\n \"But why would the guard leave?\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This happens to be a very intelligent question. It has been asked before,\nand I was never one who answered it, so I will leave it to the\nothers--perhaps it shouldn't be answered.\n\n-alga" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2003-04-24T00:34:31+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Greetings!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Welcome, Oren." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You wrote:\nAnyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of the\nTorturer. And I have a question about something on the first page actually\n\n\nWho were the characters who said the following two phrases:\n\n \"And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd send\nto\n Master Gurloes.\"\n \"But why would the guard leave?\"\n\nI guess that when I get used to Wolfe's style I wouldn't have to ask such\ntrivial questions! But until then..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The characters at this point are: Roche (Drotte's lieutenant), Drotte (the\ncaptain of the apprentices), Eata (the littlest one), and Severian.\n\nThe sequence goes like this:\n\n1. Roche talks to Drotte.\n2. Eata suggests going around instead of through.\n\nBecause of this, it seems natural to me that Drotte is the one speaking the\nline \"And try to get . . . ?\"\n\nSince there is no identifier for the response, I assume that it is the\nother speaker previously named: Roche. So it is\n\n1. Roche talks to Drotte.\n2. Eata suggests.\n3. Drotte scoffs.\n4. Roche questions.\n\nIt is a conversation between the captain and his lieutenant, with the\ninterruption of communication from an underling -- a communication\nsummarized rather than given verbatim (perhaps it was mainly contained in\nthe gesture).\n\nI hope this is of some help!\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/\n\neBay Auctions\nhttp://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=mr.sirius" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Oren Douek", "address": "orend at axelero.hu" }, "date": "2003-04-24T21:02:24+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Greetings!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Alice K. Turner wrote:\nFrom Oren:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm new to this list. I actually stumbled upon it while googling for\nCrowley a few months ago. I was reading Little, Big back then (great\nbook!)\nand was looking for answers to some questions I had about it (I still\nhave\nsome actually, and might post them here a bit later, if it's alright;\nhaven't read the FAQ yet I must admit). I was surprised I found such a\nlively discussion about Crowley on this board, and answers to some of my\nquestions!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hi Oren,\nNice to have someone who falls upon a list by accident feel so curious\nthat\nhe (a) signs up and (b) starts right in reading a new author--do you\nrealize\nthat you have committed to a huge number of books in this Wolfe sequence?!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello Alice! Well actually I had started collecting the Fantasy Masterworks\nseries from Gollancz, so I got The Book of the New Sun and Little, Big at\nthe same time, and would have come eventually to anyhow :-)I had never heard\nof Gene Wolfe before I started collecting the Fantasy Masterworks to tell\nthe truth. Oh, god, I guess it's like heresy to say something like that\nhere! But then again, another friend of mine, who is a real bookworm and had\nread tons of sf and fantasy books hadn't heard about him either until I told\nhim about his existence! Oh, well. It's like that, unfortunately, with a lot\nof excellent writers and musicians. I have some British friends who had\nnever heard about Michael Moorcock. I have friends from Toronto who had\nnever heard about Rush (probably greatest band in the galaxy, located in...\nToronto!). So I had stopped trying to find any logic concerning these\nthings!\n\nI do realize what a commitment I took by starting reading Wolfe. I believe I\ncan hold up to it! Thinking about it, the longest sequence of books I've\nread is probably Zelazny's Amber series or (although more loosely connected)\nMoorcock's Eternal Champion cycle." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "One of the reasons there's a lot about Crowley here is that Michael\nAndre-Driussi (mantis) and I, drawing on the help of four other members of\nthe list (and many outsiders) put together a big, pretty serious book\nabout\nhim. But if you want a small *cheap!!* prototype of that book, write to\nMichael directly at mantis at sirius.fiction.com. $5 plus, probably, some\nshipping, will make you a wise man." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is there a description of the contents of the book somewhere?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of\nthe\nTorturer. And I have a question about something on the first page\nactually\n\n\nWho were the characters who said the following two phrases:\n\n \"And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd\nsend\nto Master Gurloes.\"\n \"But why would the guard leave?\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This happens to be a very intelligent question. It has been asked before,\nand I was never one who answered it, so I will leave it to the\nothers--perhaps it shouldn't be answered." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks. I feel better now. I thought it might be a dumb one! :-)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-alga" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Cheerio, Oren" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Oren Douek", "address": "orend at axelero.hu" }, "date": "2003-05-06T22:43:22+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Greetings!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Michael Andre-Driussi\" wrote:\nWelcome, Oren.\n\nYou wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of\nthe\nTorturer. And I have a question about something on the first page\nactually\n\n\nWho were the characters who said the following two phrases:\n\n \"And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd\nsend\nto\n Master Gurloes.\"\n \"But why would the guard leave?\"\n\nI guess that when I get used to Wolfe's style I wouldn't have to ask such\ntrivial questions! But until then..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The characters at this point are: Roche (Drotte's lieutenant), Drotte (the\ncaptain of the apprentices), Eata (the littlest one), and Severian.\n\nThe sequence goes like this:\n\n1. Roche talks to Drotte.\n2. Eata suggests going around instead of through.\n\nBecause of this, it seems natural to me that Drotte is the one speaking\nthe\nline \"And try to get . . . ?\"\n\nSince there is no identifier for the response, I assume that it is the\nother speaker previously named: Roche. So it is\n\n1. Roche talks to Drotte.\n2. Eata suggests.\n3. Drotte scoffs.\n4. Roche questions.\n\nIt is a conversation between the captain and his lieutenant, with the\ninterruption of communication from an underling -- a communication\nsummarized rather than given verbatim (perhaps it was mainly contained in\nthe gesture).\n\nI hope this is of some help!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, it helps a lot; a very logical and detailed explanation. Thanks!\n\nI'm finishing now the new Michael Moorcock book concerning Elric et al., The\nSkrayling Tree (recommended!), and will plunge back into Wolfe very soon!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "=mantis=" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Cheerio, Oren" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Oren Douek", "address": "orend at axelero.hu" }, "date": "2003-05-28T23:11:09+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Greetings!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Michael Andre-Driussi\" wrote:\nWelcome, Oren.\n\nYou wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of\nthe\nTorturer. And I have a question about something on the first page\nactually\n\n\nWho were the characters who said the following two phrases:\n\n \"And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd\nsend\nto\n Master Gurloes.\"\n \"But why would the guard leave?\"\n\nI guess that when I get used to Wolfe's style I wouldn't have to ask such\ntrivial questions! But until then..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The characters at this point are: Roche (Drotte's lieutenant), Drotte (the\ncaptain of the apprentices), Eata (the littlest one), and Severian.\n\nThe sequence goes like this:\n\n1. Roche talks to Drotte.\n2. Eata suggests going around instead of through.\n\nBecause of this, it seems natural to me that Drotte is the one speaking\nthe\nline \"And try to get . . . ?\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You are surely right here:\nIn the explanation for the word \"barbican\" in Castle of the Otter, Wolfe\nsays:\n\n\"'And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct?' Drotte\nobjects when Eata suggests they circle the necropolis.\"\n\nCheerio, Oren" } ] } ] }