# Greetings! *The Urth list — 6 messages, 3 voices, 21 Apr 2003* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Oren Douek *21 Apr 2003, 19:10* Greetings! I'm new to this list. I actually stumbled upon it while googling for John Crowley a few months ago. I was reading Little, Big back then (great book!) and was looking for answers to some questions I had about it (I still have some actually, and might post them here a bit later, if it's alright; haven't read the FAQ yet I must admit). I was surprised I found such a lively discussion about Crowley on this board, and answers to some of my questions! Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of the Torturer. And I have a question about something on the first page actually Who were the characters who said the following two phrases: "And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd send to Master Gurloes." "But why would the guard leave?" I guess that when I get used to Wolfe's style I wouldn't have to ask such trivial questions! But until then... Cheerio, Oren P.S. I also had a chance to read The Best Introduction to the Mountains last week. I really liked it! --- ### Alice K. Turner *22 Apr 2003, 02:00 · follows Oren Douek* From Oren: > I'm new to this list. I actually stumbled upon it while googling for John > Crowley a few months ago. I was reading Little, Big back then (great > book!) > and was looking for answers to some questions I had about it (I still have > some actually, and might post them here a bit later, if it's alright; > haven't read the FAQ yet I must admit). I was surprised I found such a > lively discussion about Crowley on this board, and answers to some of my > questions! Hi Oren, Nice to have someone who falls upon a list by accident feel so curious that he (a) signs up and (b) starts right in reading a new author--do you realize that you have committed to a huge number of books in this Wolfe sequence?! One of the reasons there's a lot about Crowley here is that Michael Andre-Driussi (mantis) and I, drawing on the help of four other members of the list (and many outsiders) put together a big, pretty serious book about him. But if you want a small *cheap!!* prototype of that book, write to Michael directly at mantis at sirius.fiction.com. $5 plus, probably, some shipping, will make you a wise man. > Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of the > Torturer. And I have a question about something on the first page actually > > > Who were the characters who said the following two phrases: > > "And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd > send > to > Master Gurloes." > "But why would the guard leave?" This happens to be a very intelligent question. It has been asked before, and I was never one who answered it, so I will leave it to the others--perhaps it shouldn't be answered. -alga --- ### Michael Andre-Driussi *24 Apr 2003, 00:34 · follows Alice K. Turner* Welcome, Oren. > You wrote: > Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of the > Torturer. And I have a question about something on the first page actually > > > Who were the characters who said the following two phrases: > > "And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd send > to > Master Gurloes." > "But why would the guard leave?" > > I guess that when I get used to Wolfe's style I wouldn't have to ask such > trivial questions! But until then... The characters at this point are: Roche (Drotte's lieutenant), Drotte (the captain of the apprentices), Eata (the littlest one), and Severian. The sequence goes like this: 1. Roche talks to Drotte. 2. Eata suggests going around instead of through. Because of this, it seems natural to me that Drotte is the one speaking the line "And try to get . . . ?" Since there is no identifier for the response, I assume that it is the other speaker previously named: Roche. So it is 1. Roche talks to Drotte. 2. Eata suggests. 3. Drotte scoffs. 4. Roche questions. It is a conversation between the captain and his lieutenant, with the interruption of communication from an underling -- a communication summarized rather than given verbatim (perhaps it was mainly contained in the gesture). I hope this is of some help! =mantis= Sirius Fiction booklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley http://www.siriusfiction.com/ eBay Auctions http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=mr.sirius --- ### Oren Douek *24 Apr 2003, 21:02 · follows Michael Andre-Driussi* > Alice K. Turner wrote: > From Oren: >> I'm new to this list. I actually stumbled upon it while googling for >> Crowley a few months ago. I was reading Little, Big back then (great >> book!) >> and was looking for answers to some questions I had about it (I still >> have >> some actually, and might post them here a bit later, if it's alright; >> haven't read the FAQ yet I must admit). I was surprised I found such a >> lively discussion about Crowley on this board, and answers to some of my >> questions! > Hi Oren, > Nice to have someone who falls upon a list by accident feel so curious > that > he (a) signs up and (b) starts right in reading a new author--do you > realize > that you have committed to a huge number of books in this Wolfe sequence?! Hello Alice! Well actually I had started collecting the Fantasy Masterworks series from Gollancz, so I got The Book of the New Sun and Little, Big at the same time, and would have come eventually to anyhow :-)I had never heard of Gene Wolfe before I started collecting the Fantasy Masterworks to tell the truth. Oh, god, I guess it's like heresy to say something like that here! But then again, another friend of mine, who is a real bookworm and had read tons of sf and fantasy books hadn't heard about him either until I told him about his existence! Oh, well. It's like that, unfortunately, with a lot of excellent writers and musicians. I have some British friends who had never heard about Michael Moorcock. I have friends from Toronto who had never heard about Rush (probably greatest band in the galaxy, located in... Toronto!). So I had stopped trying to find any logic concerning these things! I do realize what a commitment I took by starting reading Wolfe. I believe I can hold up to it! Thinking about it, the longest sequence of books I've read is probably Zelazny's Amber series or (although more loosely connected) Moorcock's Eternal Champion cycle. > One of the reasons there's a lot about Crowley here is that Michael > Andre-Driussi (mantis) and I, drawing on the help of four other members of > the list (and many outsiders) put together a big, pretty serious book > about > him. But if you want a small *cheap!!* prototype of that book, write to > Michael directly at mantis at sirius.fiction.com. $5 plus, probably, some > shipping, will make you a wise man. Is there a description of the contents of the book somewhere? >> Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of >> the >> Torturer. And I have a question about something on the first page >> actually >> >> >> Who were the characters who said the following two phrases: >> >> "And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd >> send >> to Master Gurloes." >> "But why would the guard leave?" > This happens to be a very intelligent question. It has been asked before, > and I was never one who answered it, so I will leave it to the > others--perhaps it shouldn't be answered. Thanks. I feel better now. I thought it might be a dumb one! :-) > -alga Cheerio, Oren --- ### Oren Douek *06 May 2003, 22:43 · follows Oren Douek* > "Michael Andre-Driussi" wrote: > Welcome, Oren. > > You wrote: >> Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of >> the >> Torturer. And I have a question about something on the first page >> actually >> >> >> Who were the characters who said the following two phrases: >> >> "And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd >> send >> to >> Master Gurloes." >> "But why would the guard leave?" >> >> I guess that when I get used to Wolfe's style I wouldn't have to ask such >> trivial questions! But until then... > The characters at this point are: Roche (Drotte's lieutenant), Drotte (the > captain of the apprentices), Eata (the littlest one), and Severian. > > The sequence goes like this: > > 1. Roche talks to Drotte. > 2. Eata suggests going around instead of through. > > Because of this, it seems natural to me that Drotte is the one speaking > the > line "And try to get . . . ?" > > Since there is no identifier for the response, I assume that it is the > other speaker previously named: Roche. So it is > > 1. Roche talks to Drotte. > 2. Eata suggests. > 3. Drotte scoffs. > 4. Roche questions. > > It is a conversation between the captain and his lieutenant, with the > interruption of communication from an underling -- a communication > summarized rather than given verbatim (perhaps it was mainly contained in > the gesture). > > I hope this is of some help! Yes, it helps a lot; a very logical and detailed explanation. Thanks! I'm finishing now the new Michael Moorcock book concerning Elric et al., The Skrayling Tree (recommended!), and will plunge back into Wolfe very soon! > =mantis= Cheerio, Oren --- ### Oren Douek *28 May 2003, 23:11 · follows Oren Douek* > "Michael Andre-Driussi" wrote: > Welcome, Oren. > > You wrote: >> Anyhow, I've just started reading my first Gene Wolfe novel, Shadow of >> the >> Torturer. And I have a question about something on the first page >> actually >> >> >> Who were the characters who said the following two phrases: >> >> "And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct? They'd >> send >> to >> Master Gurloes." >> "But why would the guard leave?" >> >> I guess that when I get used to Wolfe's style I wouldn't have to ask such >> trivial questions! But until then... > The characters at this point are: Roche (Drotte's lieutenant), Drotte (the > captain of the apprentices), Eata (the littlest one), and Severian. > > The sequence goes like this: > > 1. Roche talks to Drotte. > 2. Eata suggests going around instead of through. > > Because of this, it seems natural to me that Drotte is the one speaking > the > line "And try to get . . . ?" You are surely right here: In the explanation for the word "barbican" in Castle of the Otter, Wolfe says: "'And try to get through the barbican without a safe-conduct?' Drotte objects when Eata suggests they circle the necropolis." Cheerio, Oren ---