{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/3963", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 3963, "subject": "jolenta rape?", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2003-04-21T20:43:39+00:00", "last": "2003-04-21T22:12:36+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2003-04-21T20:43:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) jolenta rape?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I must speak about the Jolenta \"rape\" - becuase I don't think it really is \none. She went on the boat with him, teasing and playing and falling asleep. \nShe's just being coy. I will gladly call Seawrack and Io rapes, and the girl \nin Book of the Short Sun (Mora?). But Jolenta ... she wanted it bad from \neverybody on Urth. Dorcas, Talos, Baldanders, Hethor, the Cummean, the \nscarred boy in the hut, the bull Severian gets her to ride on, everybody \nexcept poor stupid Jonas.\n\nWho falls asleep on a boat with Severian? Come on. In any case, I was going \nto say that from the first time that I read that scene in like the fifth \ngrade, it invoked the worst mental image ever. Everytime I think of the term \n\"unhatched chick\" or \"newborn chick\" my eyes tear up. It's awful. That truly \nscarred me for life. I have no idea how a female's genitals can be called \nthat. Its the weirdest simile ever. I have nightmares about it. Anybody \nelse similarly affected by it? These are the kind of odd things that \ncompletely ruin your curiousity about sex growing up. Chicken breaking out of \negg and gobbling up worms from mother's mouth- how revolting!\n\nI can safely say that Jolenta is the one character in Wolfe I absolutely hate.\n None of the other women came even close to deserving their fate - she should \nhave been Mistress Slops.\n\nOnward to the abnormal psychology induced from strange sex scenes - thank \ngoodness I never read Heinlein as a child. Spung?! L. Ron Hubbard was more \nthan bad enough for my whole life.\n\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2003-04-21T22:12:36+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) jolenta rape?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc said:\nI must speak about the Jolenta \"rape\" - becuase I don't think it really is\none. She went on the boat with him, teasing and playing and falling asleep.\nShe's just being coy. I will gladly call Seawrack and Io rapes, and the\ngirl in Book of the Short Sun (Mora?). But Jolenta ... she wanted it bad\nfrom everybody on Urth. Dorcas, Talos, Baldanders, Hethor, the Cummean, the\nscarred boy in the hut, the bull Severian gets her to ride on, everybody\nexcept poor stupid Jonas.\n\nCrush responds:\nWell \"she wanted me to do it\" was Severian's argument. She was far enough\nout of it that she didn't wake up. That would qualify as \"date rape\". Your\nargument would bring into question whether it is possible to rape a\npromiscuous woman.\n\nI'm comfortable (so to speak) identifying this event as a Wolfean rape\nscene.\n\n-Crush" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Who falls asleep on a boat with Severian? Come on. In any case, I was\ngoing\nto say that from the first time that I read that scene in like the fifth\ngrade, it invoked the worst mental image ever. Everytime I think of the\nterm\n\"unhatched chick\" or \"newborn chick\" my eyes tear up. It's awful. That\ntruly\nscarred me for life. I have no idea how a female's genitals can be called\nthat. Its the weirdest simile ever. I have nightmares about it. Anybody\nelse similarly affected by it? These are the kind of odd things that\ncompletely ruin your curiousity about sex growing up. Chicken breaking\nout of\negg and gobbling up worms from mother's mouth- how revolting!\n\nI can safely say that Jolenta is the one character in Wolfe I absolutely\nhate.\n None of the other women came even close to deserving their fate - she\nshould\nhave been Mistress Slops.\n\nOnward to the abnormal psychology induced from strange sex scenes - thank\ngoodness I never read Heinlein as a child. Spung?! L. Ron Hubbard was\nmore\nthan bad enough for my whole life.\n\nMarc Aramini\n\n\n\n--" } ] } ] }