Subject: (urth) jolenta rape?

From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:43:39 +0000

I must speak about the Jolenta "rape" - becuase I don't think it really is 
one.  She went on the boat with him, teasing and playing and falling asleep.  
She's just being coy.  I will gladly call Seawrack and Io rapes, and the girl 
in Book of the Short Sun (Mora?).  But Jolenta ... she wanted it bad from 
everybody on Urth.  Dorcas, Talos, Baldanders, Hethor, the Cummean, the 
scarred boy in the hut, the bull Severian gets her to ride on, everybody 
except poor stupid Jonas.

Who falls asleep on a boat with Severian?  Come on.  In any case, I was going 
to say that from the first time that I read that scene in like the fifth 
grade, it invoked the worst mental image ever.  Everytime I think of the term 
"unhatched chick" or "newborn chick" my eyes tear up.  It's awful.  That truly 
scarred me for life.  I have no idea how a female's genitals can be called 
that.  Its the weirdest simile ever.  I have nightmares about it.  Anybody 
else similarly affected by it? These are the kind of odd things that 
completely ruin your curiousity about sex growing up.  Chicken breaking out of 
egg and gobbling up worms from mother's mouth- how revolting!

I can safely say that Jolenta is the one character in Wolfe I absolutely hate.
 None of the other women came even close to deserving their fate - she should 
have been Mistress Slops.

Onward to the abnormal psychology induced from strange sex scenes - thank 
goodness I never read Heinlein as a child.  Spung?!  L. Ron Hubbard was more 
than bad enough for my whole life.

Marc Aramini

--

---

From: James Wynn <crushtv at hotpop.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:12:36 +0000

Marc said:
I must speak about the Jolenta "rape" - becuase I don't think it really is
one.  She went on the boat with him, teasing and playing and falling asleep.
She's just being coy.  I will gladly call Seawrack and Io rapes, and the
girl in Book of the Short Sun (Mora?).  But Jolenta ... she wanted it bad
from everybody on Urth.  Dorcas, Talos, Baldanders, Hethor, the Cummean, the
scarred boy in the hut, the bull Severian gets her to ride on, everybody
except poor stupid Jonas.

Crush responds:
Well "she wanted me to do it" was Severian's argument. She was far enough
out of it that she didn't wake up. That would qualify as "date rape". Your
argument would bring into question whether it is possible to rape a
promiscuous woman.

I'm comfortable (so to speak) identifying this event as a Wolfean rape
scene.

-Crush

--