# jolenta rape? *The Urth list — 2 messages, 2 voices, 21 Apr 2003* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### maa32 *21 Apr 2003, 20:43* I must speak about the Jolenta "rape" - becuase I don't think it really is one. She went on the boat with him, teasing and playing and falling asleep. She's just being coy. I will gladly call Seawrack and Io rapes, and the girl in Book of the Short Sun (Mora?). But Jolenta ... she wanted it bad from everybody on Urth. Dorcas, Talos, Baldanders, Hethor, the Cummean, the scarred boy in the hut, the bull Severian gets her to ride on, everybody except poor stupid Jonas. Who falls asleep on a boat with Severian? Come on. In any case, I was going to say that from the first time that I read that scene in like the fifth grade, it invoked the worst mental image ever. Everytime I think of the term "unhatched chick" or "newborn chick" my eyes tear up. It's awful. That truly scarred me for life. I have no idea how a female's genitals can be called that. Its the weirdest simile ever. I have nightmares about it. Anybody else similarly affected by it? These are the kind of odd things that completely ruin your curiousity about sex growing up. Chicken breaking out of egg and gobbling up worms from mother's mouth- how revolting! I can safely say that Jolenta is the one character in Wolfe I absolutely hate. None of the other women came even close to deserving their fate - she should have been Mistress Slops. Onward to the abnormal psychology induced from strange sex scenes - thank goodness I never read Heinlein as a child. Spung?! L. Ron Hubbard was more than bad enough for my whole life. Marc Aramini --- ### James Wynn *21 Apr 2003, 22:12 · follows maa32* Marc said: I must speak about the Jolenta "rape" - becuase I don't think it really is one. She went on the boat with him, teasing and playing and falling asleep. She's just being coy. I will gladly call Seawrack and Io rapes, and the girl in Book of the Short Sun (Mora?). But Jolenta ... she wanted it bad from everybody on Urth. Dorcas, Talos, Baldanders, Hethor, the Cummean, the scarred boy in the hut, the bull Severian gets her to ride on, everybody except poor stupid Jonas. Crush responds: Well "she wanted me to do it" was Severian's argument. She was far enough out of it that she didn't wake up. That would qualify as "date rape". Your argument would bring into question whether it is possible to rape a promiscuous woman. I'm comfortable (so to speak) identifying this event as a Wolfean rape scene. -Crush > Who falls asleep on a boat with Severian? Come on. In any case, I was > going > to say that from the first time that I read that scene in like the fifth > grade, it invoked the worst mental image ever. Everytime I think of the > term > "unhatched chick" or "newborn chick" my eyes tear up. It's awful. That > truly > scarred me for life. I have no idea how a female's genitals can be called > that. Its the weirdest simile ever. I have nightmares about it. Anybody > else similarly affected by it? These are the kind of odd things that > completely ruin your curiousity about sex growing up. Chicken breaking > out of > egg and gobbling up worms from mother's mouth- how revolting! > > I can safely say that Jolenta is the one character in Wolfe I absolutely > hate. > None of the other women came even close to deserving their fate - she > should > have been Mistress Slops. > > Onward to the abnormal psychology induced from strange sex scenes - thank > goodness I never read Heinlein as a child. Spung?! L. Ron Hubbard was > more > than bad enough for my whole life. > > Marc Aramini > > > > -- ---