Subject: (urth) The Mine in Saltus

From: Nicholas Gevers <vermoulian at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:19:24 +0000

The matter of the entity in the mine in Saltus: I
think all the speculation has ignored the obvious. The
entity is Urth herself. When Severian brings the Claw
with him below ground, it shines what is, by proxy,
the light of the New Sun. The bowels of Urth react as
they will when the New Sun comes: with seismic
rumblings, premonitions of earthquake. The whole
episode is an omen of the foundering of continents
prophesied in Dr. Talos's Play and described in THE
URTH OF THE NEW SUN...

--Nick Gevers.

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From: Che Monro <flirt at technologist.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 07:01:02 +0000

>prophesied in Dr. Talos's Play and described in THE

Hummm... Which would explain why so much of a fuss is made in the text 
about whether the power resides in the Claw or in Severian himself. Getting 
at the Truth via misdirection. But then, um, all the Urth is hallowed 
ground, right?

Che

Ché Franz Joseph Monro -- http://www.chemonro.com
che at chemonro.com    --     flirt at technologist.com

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From: matthew.malthouse <matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 09:02:02 +0000

>The matter of the entity in the mine in Saltus: I

I like entity much beter than inteligence.

>prophesied in Dr. Talos's Play and described in THE

Oh but a small point: the mine's guardians react in a manner to suggest
fear based on prior experience; they have some concept of what is coming
so they must have seen it before, sans claw, sans Severian.

That bit always reminds me of the drums pre-figuring the balrog in the
mines of Moria.

Matthew

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From: Hubert Rogers <hubert at ntlworld.com>
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 20:41:55 +0000

Cyriaca's story in Sword of the Lictor and Severian's statement that he
thinks he knows something of those machines, seem to suggest that there was
indeed an entity in the mine at Saltus. What else could Severian be
referring to when he said that?

> That bit always reminds me of the drums pre-figuring the balrog in the

I agree this 'scene' does seem to be heavily Tolkien influenced.

Hubert

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From: matthew.malthouse <matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 11:25:18 +0000

On 06/05/2003 21:41:55 Hubert Rogers wrote:

>indeed an entity in the mine at Saltus.

I was happy with "entity".  I'd have quibled with the ealier used
"inteligence".

>What else could Severian be

I can't look right now (me, office: books, home) but I have a feeling that
I thought the inhabitants of the Wall of Nessus.

Curious though, at the time of the incident with Cyriaca Severian had some
superficial knowledge of the Citadel, had fled whatever approached in the
Mines of Saltus and had gained barely more than a tourist's view of the
House Absolute.

What knowledge could Severian the lictor of Thrax have of such?  I'd have
thought very little. So is Severian, Autarch and Author interpolating
knowledge that he possesses into the conversations of his earlier, more
ignorant self?

Matthew

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