Subject: (urth) Latro and the Persian army

From: Chris <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:50:07 +0000

I've finally finished reading Herodotus this week, which was rewarding in 
and of itself, but somehow I couldn't help but keep my eye out for things 
concerning those historical characters which also appeared in Latro's story. 
And while this hasn't exactly inspired me to construct any bizarre theories 
about the story, there was one thing that struck me as curious that I 
wondered if anyone had an "obvious" explanation for.

Essentially, the assumption I made from the story is that Latro's injury and 
his offense to Demeter occurred during the battle of Plataea. Having read 
Herodotus' vague description of the action there, however, he provides some 
specifics that make this difficult to reconcile. The Greek army had split 
into two divisions, according to his account - the Spartans, who were 
engaged near the shrine of Demeter, and the Athenians who were some distance 
away. The Persian army also split, and it's stated that native Persians led 
by Mardonius pursued the Spartans, while the foreign contingent coming along 
after fought the Athenians & co. This implies that for Latro to have been 
fighting near the shrine of Demeter during the battle of Plataea, he must 
have been in the Persian contingent; not only that, he would have to have 
been in the leading elements among the Immortals and Mardonius' hand-picked 
bodyguard, since the rout began before the full Persian contingent was able 
to engage.

It's not impossible to resolve this, but it does seem to make a difference 
how you choose to explain it.

One of the first things that occurred to me was that Latro may have acquired 
his curse at a different shrine of Demeter - the Persians had sacked the one 
at Eleusis earlier, whereas at Plataea the shrine remained supposedly 
untouched. If this were the case then Latro may have lost his memory quite 
some time before the battle of Plataea where he received his head injury 
(which would then be incidental and misleading).

Another possibility is that Latro may really have been close to Mardonius. 
It doesn't seem unreasonable that he would be accorded some honor if he 
really was the one to kill Leonidas. And Latro's vague memory places him 
somewhere not too far away from Xerxes during the battle of Thermopylae, so 
perhaps he had a position of honor even back then. That, however, makes him 
a prominent enough figure that it seems unusual that no one thought to 
mention him in the various histories.

Any thoughts?

Chris

--
"Indeed it is hard to grasp why it hasn't already given birth... to its 
hero, that demon who will stage without scruple that horrifying play that 
reduces the whole age to laughter and to unconsciousness of the fact that it 
is laughing at itself." -- Soren Kierkegaard

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From: A. Bin Talal <aqala at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:06:16 +0000

> (which would then be incidental and misleading).

You are saying then that he was cursed by Demeter to
forget before the battle and then took part in the
battle, fighting the Athenians, and got a head injury!
it's a nice theory but I don't see any hints in the
text of 'Latro'  to this conclusion. Any way he seemed
almost invincible for the rest of the book having Nike
following him everywhere like a newly married wife
following her husband.

> mention him in the various histories.

Well in the History there was no mention of a Roman or
even a Latin contingent in the Persian army, let alone
a single Roman man. IMHO I think that Latro
foreshadows the rise of the Roman republic which was
created around the time of the Persian war. Nike
followed them everywhere around the Hellenic world;
just like Latro. 

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From: The Wynns <the.wynns at usa.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:21:38 +0000

Chris postulates:
...for Latro to have been fighting near the shrine of Demeter during the
battle of Plataea, he must have been in the Persian contingent; not only
that, he would have to have been in the leading elements among the Immortals
and Mardonius' hand-picked bodyguard, since the rout began before the full
Persian contingent was able to engage...Another possibility is that Latro
may really have been close to Mardonius. It doesn't seem unreasonable that
he would be accorded some honor if he really was the one to kill Leonidas.
And Latro's vague memory places him somewhere not too far away from Xerxes
during the battle of Thermopylae, so perhaps he had a position of honor even
back then. That, however, makes him a prominent enough figure that it seems
unusual that no one thought to mention him in the various histories.

Crush responds:
You have solved the puzzle yourself. Latro was an Immortal -- probably an
officer among them on a tactical level. He could be merely an officer in the
Persian military, but it is unlikely that a foreigner would be permitted
such a distinction. Foreigners were, however, preferred among bodyguard
units as they considered less corruptible (Wolfe himself states in the
introduction) -- consider Rome's Praetorian Guard. How this particular Latin
won a place with the Immortals is not explained, but Latro's knowledge of
Zoroastrianism strongly suggests he spent some significant time in Persia
(as opposed to being mustered in Egypt which the text suggests he went to
first). I don't believe any of the Immortals were mentioned in Herodotus by
name.

The quote from Herodotus at the beginning of SotM is from the battle of
Plataea when Mardonius was killed. I would think this is where the story
begins.
-- Crush

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From: Andrew Bollen <abollen at internode.on.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:08:34 +0000

> first). I don't believe any of the Immortals were mentioned in Herodotus
by

Doesn't this get kind of explained in Latro's vision at Thermopylae? I don't
have time to search out the quote, but as I recall, we learn from this that
Latro is captain of a group of Romans, which has been given a position of
honor near the King, in the absence for whatever reason of the Immortals.
They front the desperate charge by Leonidas' band; I think we can probably
infer that Latro personally slays Leonidas.

It's not a stretch to imagine Mardonius granting the Romans an
Immortals-like position on the field at Plataea,  given this.

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