{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4037",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4037,
    "subject": "(TBOTN) Nessus, Citadel, Wall",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2003-06-19T21:19:28+00:00",
    "last": "2003-06-20T08:03:20+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0306-3508@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi",
        "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com"
      },
      "date": "2003-06-19T21:19:28+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) (TBOTN) Nessus, Citadel, Wall",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Nessus-the-mobile, the Citadel, and the enigmatic Wall.\n\nFor simplicity's sake, let's suppose that the citadel is located in the\nexact center of a circular Wall.\n\nNow then, in Typhon's time (in URTH), the \"towers\" are still ships.  The\ndoctor who checks Sev refers to the \"zoetic transport,\" for example.  I'm\npretty sure we don't see Nessus in Typhon's era in URTH (we go from Saltus\nto the Citadel); and in the Long Sun books I believe we have indication\nthat in Typhon's era the Citadel was at the northern edge of the city,\nrather than being at the southern edge as it is in Severian's childhood.\n\nSo my question about where \"Nessus\" is at any given era relates to where\nthe leading edge and trailing edge are in relation to the citadel complex.\nThe citadel is like an island garrison, and Nessus is a tide that rises up\nand finally past it.\n\nIf there were breaks in the wall, these would serve as access ways; but\nwhat we see at the one gate is a tunnel like a mine shaft.  Presumably the\nriver passes through a similar tunnel, but Severian is maddeningly silent\non this (I think he literally sleeps through it on the Samru).\n\nThe Wall is far from the sea.\n\nWhen I wrote about \"gigantism\" in gothic, I thought of CASTLE OTRANTO (the\ngiant there being a ghostly arm, iirc), and for genre of course I thought\nof THE NIGHT LAND.  I nearly mentioned hartshorn by name in that regard --\nI didn't, but he has popped up anyway.  Yay!\n\nMore gigantism in TBOTNS: the league-high cliff, the carved mountains, the\nmonster-mammals (baluchitherium, mammoths, et ali), the undines, the thing\nin the mine at Saltus (sounds big, at least) . . .\n\nRight, the =Citadel= is the one with walls of unsmeltable metal.  The Walls\nof Nessus, who knows?  They are said to be honeycombed; basically an\nanthill of the Autarch's freaky soldiers.  Beastmen, anpiels, things like\nthat.\n\n=mantis="
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0306-3511@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "matthew.malthouse",
        "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "2003-06-20T08:03:20+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) (TBOTN) Nessus, Citadel, Wall",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0306-3508@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 19/06/2003 22:19:28 Michael Andre-Driussi wrote:\nIf there were breaks in the wall, these would serve as access ways; but\nwhat we see at the one gate is a tunnel like a mine shaft.  Presumably \nthe\nriver passes through a similar tunnel, but Severian is maddeningly silent\non this (I think he literally sleeps through it on the Samru)."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Dr Talos says there are 12 gates and names at least some of them, he and \nBaldanders having traversed one entering the city on the way south, two \nmore going and retuning from the southern lands and about to travel the \nfourth, the Gate Piteous, with Severian and company going home.\n\nMatthew"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}