{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4058",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
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  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4058,
    "subject": "Just finished BotSS",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2003-07-02T00:47:47+00:00",
    "last": "2003-07-02T00:47:47+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0307-3554@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Mooncalf",
        "address": "athenaeum at tampabay.rr.com"
      },
      "date": "2003-07-02T00:47:47+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Just finished BotSS",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Hi everyone, just signed up to the mailing list today. Have been reading\nWolfe off and on for several years now but only now got around to the Short\nSun series and wound up finishing RttW a few days ago. Ever since then i've\nbeen searching the web looking for reviews and such...out of curiosity to\nsee what other people thought of it but also to see if it might shed some\nlight on some of the more mysterious parts in the book/s.\n\nWell once i arrived here i went back in the archives and read through many\nof the responses, beginning when RttW first came out and working my way up.\nHave to admit i was a bit disappointed at first by some of the disappointed\nreactions and, to that end, i wish to thank Marc Aramini in particular for\nhis posts (though actually i came across him initially via his review on\nAmazon and only later found he posted here) for i think his amazing theories\nadded much to my appreciation of the books - i.e., instead of wondering if\nsome posters were correct that Wolfe had lost his touch or had lost interest\nin the series and therefore things didn't hold up very well upon close\nexamination, i came away thinking just the opposite was true and that RttW\nwas one of his deepest, most rewarding books yet.\n\nAs to my own impressions...well the odd thing about reading this series is\nthat it took me a while to get into each of the books. In RttW it took the\nlongest, and at somewhere between pages 100 and 150 i started to despair\nthat i would ever get into it. Thankfully something clicked after that point\nthough (perhaps i finally got the \"hang\" of Pig's dialect ;) and i found\nmyself totally mesmerized once more by the style of writing and by the story\nitself. And that story, to me at least, seemed in large part to parallel how\nwe (humanity in general) moved from belief in pagan gods to a belief in one\ntrue God, a God worthy of worship. It seemed as much a search for finding\nand bringing back the Outsider as it did for finding and bringing back Silk.\nI got more out of the books than just that, of course, but i think that was\nthe aspect of it that fascinated me the most.\n\nAnyway, even though i've read through a lot of the posts here over the last\nfew days i still have a few questions/points that i haven't seen addressed\nyet (although i easily could have missed them since there was so much to go\nthrough...and you'll have to forgive me for being imprecise at times but i\nchecked the books out at the library and only RttW still remains with me to\nhelp refresh my memory).\n\n\n1. Is Scylla able at some point after inhabiting Oreb (perhaps due to\nproximity to the Neighbors or to the Narrator or due to the astral\nprojections or all three) to transfer copies of herself into others? I\nwondered about this because of a couple strange observations made by the\nNarrator. One, when he suddenly blurts out that he feels bad for Beroep\nright after answering a question about Scylla - so did Scylla possess\nAanvagen, who at first was described by Beroep as somewhat less than\nintelligent, but who during one of the courtroom scenes seems suddenly quite\ncompetent? Two, when the Narrator emphasizes the strange reaction that\nMarble had when she can see again, exclaiming \"Oh, Scylla!\". Did she become\npossessed right then and there? Oreb was present during that scene and,\naccording to the Narrator, became alarmed and flew off soon afterwards due\nto Marble's wild dancing. Also, at the very end when someone writes Good\nFishing repeatedly, that sounds like something Scylla would say...so another\nperson possessed by Scylla?\n\nTo me this would make sense with regard to the question of why would Scylla\nso willingly seek out her own death. If she had copied herself into others\nhowever then it seems she wouldn't mind so much killing off one of the\ncopies.\n\n2. Also what is the \"apparent\" age of the Narrator? During the first two\nbooks i got the distinct impression of an old man which i found curious\nsince Silk wasn't much older than Horn. In IGJ there was one scene (though\nperhaps i misread it) at Inclito's dinner table where i believe someone says\nthat the Narrator is the oldest one there, despite the presence of a woman\nwho is the grandmother of a 15 yr old from her 4th marriage. Yet in the 3rd\nbook the Narrator appears to be in his 40s, since at one point he talks to a\nshopkeeper who is described as over 40 (which i take it to mean in his 40s)\nand who says that the Narrator is about his own age (was this a clue put in\nto suggest that maybe there is something going on age-wise that needs\nlooking into?).\n\nI've thought about this and so far the only thing i can come up with is\nbased upon Marc's theory that Horn goes into Babbie. Let's say then that\nwhen Horn and Silk merge that not only do their spirits combine but that it\nalso somehow affects the age of Silk's body (combining their ages as well?).\nNow if that's the case i'm not sure why no one on the Whorl remarks about\nSilk's sudden aging. Maybe it wasn't so sudden after all and instead was\nmore of a gradual process in terms of outward appearance, such as his hair\nturning white or whatever, and only when he returned to Blue for a while did\nit really start to become noticeable. And so by the time he leaves Gaon at\nthe end of IGJ he appears an old and wizened ruler (if indeed that is how he\nappears and not a mistaken impression on my part). Then if Marc's hunch is\ncorrect and much of the Horn essence moves into Babbie during that strange\nscene at the very end of IGJ, perhaps the aging effect reverses starting at\nthat point.\n\n(As an aside, could it be that another clue to Babbie/Horn is that when\nBabbie attempts to speak during the Astral Projections he says\n\"Huh-Huh-Huh\"...maybe he's trying to say Horn? I know for instance he says\nHuh-Huh-Huh when he points to his mouth that one time. Indicating the\nmissing horns or else trying to say that Horn is inside him?).\n\n3. Finally, i have to say i agree with most of Marc's other theories as\nwell. Particularly Blue being Urth. That would give a sort of symmetry to\nthe trilogy (a trilogy in the sense of each series being a single book\ndivided into various parts). Plus that way an implied but - for obvious\nreasons - unused title of the Short Sun books would be The Book of the New\nUrth. Again that gives the whole thing a nice symmetry to my way of thinking\nand it is a nice way to wrap up a trilogy by returning to where it all\nbegan. More than that though, it's just the sort of puzzle and implied title\nthat i think would appeal to Wolfe.\n\nAnother reason i believe this theory rings true is because of the\nintentional misdirections. The most blatant of which (that i can recall\noffhand) is near the end where the Narrator says he would be willing to go\noutside and point out the star of the Red Sun Whorl to Juganu. However even\nif we were to suppose that Blue isn't Urth i still don't see how the\nNarrator would have any idea which star it might be. In my opinion at that\nmoment he could have cared less about the actual location of the Red Sun for\nall he wanted to do was draw Juganu's attention away from Green and was\nusing every psychological ploy he could think of to do so...even if it meant\ngoing outside and pointing at any old star and essentially saying \"there,\nnow stop thinking Green and start thinking Red\". A related misdirection\nmight be when someone (Hide?) says that the constellations don't look the\nsame from the Red Sun Whorl. But since they could see the stars in the\ndaytime that could account for seeing different stars and different star\npatterns. Or so i would guess.\n\nAnd yet another reason that i like this theory is that it gets rid of the\nawkward instantaneous astral traveling through light years of space, which i\nknow some people had trouble with. Mainly though it just seems to fit well\nwith the \"trilogy\" and to me it gives it an added layer of depth and more of\na feel of completeness to it.\n\nI was going to end off there but i remembered one more thing...\n\n4. Just how much is Mucor involved behind the scenes in the Short Sun books?\nAny indication that she plays a bigger role than we've been led to believe?\nAlso what leads the Narrator to describe her as seeming to be like a great\ngeneral (or something similar) in OBW? LoL, i have to admit that at the time\ni toyed around half-seriously with the idea that maybe she possessed the\nnarrator at that point and wrote the description herself.\n\n\nAnyhow i guess that about wraps things up.\n\nTake care,\nMooncalf"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}