{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4059", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4059, "subject": "horn, blue, hierax, etc.", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2003-07-02T07:01:10+00:00", "last": "2003-07-02T18:24:19+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2003-07-02T07:01:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) horn, blue, hierax, etc.", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for the encouraging words, Mooncalf. Yes, I believe at one point I \nposted that the huh-huh-huh sounds were Horn trying to say his own name to his \nson, who didn't recognize him. Also, I think that the quest to find Silk is \nfinished by helping Pig get his eyes back: Silk has erased himself from his \nnormal body at the death of Hyacinth, and the divine part of Silk is trapped \nin Pig when Pig loses his eyes. In order to get Silk's mind or soul back into \nhis body, which is being kept alive by Horn's spirit, Pig must be able to get \nSilk out of himself through an eye, and the extracted Silk can be downloaded \ninto Silk's body, at which point the rest of the quest is to get rid of Horn, \nwhich I believe happens underneath that tree at the end of OBW, and then \neliminating the residual spirit of Horn left behind and getting through the \nguilt of erasing Horn before Silk can admit that he is indeed Silk.\n\nThe Scylla questions are very interesting to me as well - because I think that \ntomb on Urth is very important, especially if it is the same one that \nSeverian plays in as a child, where he is himself buried (or someone who he is \na copy of).\n\nThat Aavangen question is a huge one. Should we think she is an inhuma? No. \nA neighbor? no. Why should we feel sorry for Beroep? Doesn't she speak in \nthe proper word order to be a true citizen of that town? Is she a spy of the \nMother? (Or, as I like to think of her, one of the daughters of Scylla the \nMonster?)\n\nDo you like my idea that Chenille has returned to Blue in a lander from green \nwith the same ring that Horn used to wear? When Jahlee feeds on the \"drunk\" \nwoman in the tavern in Return to the Whorl, Silk mistakes her for Chenille. I \nthink Chenille is in town mourning the loss of her children, so Silk just \nbarely misses her after she is preyed upon by Jahlee. Sinew repaired the \nlander and sent Chenille on it, so the lander they may find at the end was the \none that Horn probably died in.\n\nOne more thing: I think that the blind man that Horn mistakes for Auk in the \nstory that is told at the beginning of IGJ (the one that he has to kill) is in \nfact the god Hierax. He has fled into that man, and later we learn that \nHierax is dead. Where did he die? The narrator mistook that man for Auk, who \nwe know is alive because he's in a basement on Green, because at one time Auk \nwas possessed for a long time by that God. (Or have I confused him with \nTartaros? In any case, The Blind God has hidden himself in that man, who gets \nkilled trying to take out Horn on Green).\n\nWell, thanks again for the credit, Mooncalf. I owe much of my theories to a \nton of people on the list who asked the right questions at the right time \n(such as James Jordan, who actually inspired me to find a \"viable\" explanation \nfor the vanished people with his attempt to put my miscellaneous observations \ninto a chronology, whether we believe any of my ideas as a group or not). \nThanks for taking the time to read the old stuff!\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mooncalf", "address": "athenaeum at tampabay.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-07-02T18:24:19+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) horn, blue, hierax, etc.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc wrote:\nAlso, I think that the quest to find Silk is finished by helping Pig get\nhis eyes back: Silk has erased himself from his normal body at the death of\nHyacinth, and the divine part of Silk is trapped in Pig when Pig loses his\neyes. In order to get Silk's mind or soul back into his body, which is being\nkept alive by Horn's spirit, Pig must be able to get Silk out of himself\nthrough an eye, and the extracted Silk can be downloaded into Silk's body,\nat which point the rest of the quest is to get rid of Horn, which I believe\nhappens underneath that tree at the end of OBW, and then eliminating the\nresidual spirit of Horn left behind and getting through the guilt of erasing" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Horn before Silk can admit that he is indeed Silk.\n\nHm, this would certainly go a long way to tying up some loose ends.\nEspecially as to why Horn would leave Silk's body to go into Babbie. But on\nthe other hand (and i apologize if i'm asking you to repeat explanations\npreviously made on the list) if all this is true then when did Pig lose his\neyes and how? Do you mean that everything happened just as Pig said and that\nthe divine part of Silk was copied into Pig after he killed a priest and\nbefore his eyes were removed? However, hmm. I'm missing something here. I\ndon't understand why SilkHorn needs Pig to impart the Divine Silk. I mean,\nwouldn't the Divine Silk still reside in Mainframe and couldn't SilkHorn\nsimply receive a download from it through a Glass or Window? Or are you\nsaying that the entire Divine Silk fled Mainframe and went into Pig for some\nreason? If so, then looks like there was more going on behind the attack on\nPig's eyes than i first thought (as i should have known there would be)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That Aavangen question is a huge one. Should we think she is an inhuma?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No. A neighbor? no. Why should we feel sorry for Beroep? Doesn't she speak\nin the proper word order to be a true citizen of that town? Is she a spy of\nthe Mother? (Or, as I like to think of her, one of the daughters of Scylla\nthe Monster?)\n\nI'm not sure what she is, but your line about \"proper word order\" reminded\nme of the scene where the Narrator talks to a bartender (i think) and tries\nout some Dorp dialect on him. The bartender essentially tells him not bad,\nbut he got a couple things mixed up. Is Wolfe here trying to tell us that we\nmight need to take a closer look at not only what people are saying but how\nthey are saying it? Is there really a clue buried so deeply that a misplaced\nverb (or similar) could reveal someone as a fake? And does this apply to\nother deeply hidden things as well?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Do you like my idea that Chenille has returned to Blue in a lander from\ngreen with the same ring that Horn used to wear? When Jahlee feeds on the\n\"drunk\" woman in the tavern in Return to the Whorl, Silk mistakes her for\nChenille. I think Chenille is in town mourning the loss of her children, so\nSilk just barely misses her after she is preyed upon by Jahlee. Sinew\nrepaired the lander and sent Chenille on it, so the lander they may find at\nthe end was the one that Horn probably died in." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes i do like that idea. Doing a quick search i see that Jahlee says on\nP.155 (Hardcover) that \"She'sh big woman.\" I had assumed that it meant her\nvictim was very obese. Though i see now that it could also apply to a tall\nand full-figured woman like Chenille. And the last part about Sinew fixing\nthe lander strikes me as very plausible and very well thought out.\n\nOkay, i've just been rereading that entire passage now (instead of simply\nthe part germane to Jahlee) and at the beginning i see that Auk makes a\nghostly appearance. The Narrator imagines (or sees) him sitting down on a\nstool and is reminded of when Auk and Silk first met. So....Auk dies there,\nthe Narrator is seeing his ghost, and Chenille is mourning him? Did he die\nduring the fighting at the Courthouse?\n\nBtw the connection between Jahlee and Chenille recalls the incident where\nJahlee is kicked at the end of RttW, and the Narrator mentions how it\nreminded him of Auk kicking Chenille." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "One more thing: I think that the blind man that Horn mistakes for Auk in\nthe story that is told at the beginning of IGJ (the one that he has to kill)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "is in fact the god Hierax. He has fled into that man, and later we learn\nthat Hierax is dead. Where did he die? The narrator mistook that man for\nAuk, who we know is alive because he's in a basement on Green, because at\none time Auk was possessed for a long time by that God. (Or have I confused\nhim with Tartaros? In any case, The Blind God has hidden himself in that\nman, who gets killed trying to take out Horn on Green).\n\nYes, i believe you're confusing Hierax with Tartaros. But as to the rest\nthere is definitely something going on with that blind man and your theory\nis better than anything i can come up with. Unless it was just some relative\nof Auk's. Are any of his relatives ever mentioned, or hinted at, in the LS\nbooks?\n\n\ntake care,\nMooncalf" } ] } ] }