{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/406", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 406, "subject": "BotNS Review", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1998-03-07T23:31:10+00:00", "last": "1998-03-12T00:30:04+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "CRCulver", "address": "crculver at aol.com" }, "date": "1998-03-07T23:31:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) BotNS Review", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Fellow Urthers,\n\nI'm writing a review of the Book of the New Sun and Urth of the New Sun for\nPorchnus, the e-zine of the America Online Religion and Beliefs forum. The\nreview will center on religious themes in the BotNS. I'd appreciate any and\nall suggestions from those of this list who are certainly more knowledgeable\nthan I concerning Wolfe's writings.\n\nThanks,\n\nChristopher R. Culver \nhttp://members.aol.com/crculver/index.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Stephenson", "address": "pws at ifh.de" }, "date": "1998-03-09T09:13:32+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) BotNS Review", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "CRCulver at aol.com wrote:\nI'm writing a review of the Book of the New Sun and Urth of the New Sun for\nPorchnus, the e-zine of the America Online Religion and Beliefs forum. The\nreview will center on religious themes in the BotNS. I'd appreciate any and\nall suggestions from those of this list who are certainly more knowledgeable\nthan I concerning Wolfe's writings." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There are some apparent references to Severian as Christ, which should\nprobably be seen in the context of references to Severian as lots of\nother (in the broadest sense of the words) mythological heroes: King\nArthur, Faust, Theseus, Romulus ...\n\nI just spotted one possible one reading Shadow the other day: in the\nchapter Terminus Est, Severian, having left the citadel, comes to a\nbridge, where he is brought before the lochage (a word of classical\norigin, according to the Lexicon) with the words `This is the man'.\nThis sounds like a reference to Christ before Pilate. He doesn't get\nasked `what is truth'. He also describes himself in this sequence\nfrom the guild's full title as a `seeker for truth and penitence',\nwhich may be related. The whole idea of Severian as both hero and\ntorturer has more vaguely religious overtones.\n\nThe part where he goes through Thrax holding the Claw aloft recalls `I\nam the light of the world', but I may be thinking more of the Holman\nHunt painting than the biblical quotation. Obviously, the Conciliator\nhas heavy Christ-like associations, which I can't really do justice to.\n\nA clearer reference is the episode when he is taken by Typhon up Mt. Typhon\nand shown things he shouldn't be able to see. This must be a\nreference to Christ in the wilderness being tempted by the Devil,\nwhere he is shown all the countries in the world and offered them as a\nreward.\n\nI'm sure there must be other such. I hope someone can wax lyrical on\nthe relationship of the Pancreator, the Increate, the Conciliator,\netc. etc., which I've never quite got straight." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Peter Stephenson Tel: +39 50 844536\nWWW: http://www.ifh.de/~pws/\nGruppo Teorico, Dipartimento di Fisica\nPiazza Torricelli 2, 56100 Pisa, Italy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "1998-03-12T00:30:04+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) BotNS Review", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:31 PM 3/7/98 -0500, you wrote:\n\n[Posted from URTH, a mailing list about Gene Wolfe's New Sun and other works]\n\nFellow Urthers,\n\nI'm writing a review of the Book of the New Sun and Urth of the New Sun for\nPorchnus, the e-zine of the America Online Religion and Beliefs forum. The\nreview will center on religious themes in the BotNS. I'd appreciate any and\nall suggestions from those of this list who are certainly more knowledgeable\nthan I concerning Wolfe's writings.\n\nThanks,\n\nChristopher R. Culver " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tWhat I should warn you against is trying to see Severian's story as a\ngospel allegory. Now, Silk's story IS pretty much a retelling of the gospel\nnarrative, but I'm not at all sure Severian's is.\n\tFrom Wolfe's standpoint, Severian is a \"Christ figure\" in the sense that\nall Christians are. That is, his life is an application of what Jesus\nChrist accomplished. Jesus saved the world from sin and damnation; all\nSeverian does is provide new warmth. Jesus said His followers should show\ncompassion to all men by giving out cups of cold water to those in need.\nThat's what Severian does, in essence.\n\tNow, to be sure, Severian is a very talented man. We are not all Bachs,\nnot all Rembrandts, not all Severians. But those who have great talent are\ncalled to do great things. Remember, though, that part of what Wolfe was\ntrying to do is to fill out that part of Lewis's *Great Divorce* in which\nhe sees a small crack in the ground of heaven that is the universe, and\nalso hell. So, we are constantly reminded that Urth is just a little world\nin a huge cosmos, and that the Commonwealth is just a little kingdom on the\nUrth (about the size of Delaware, or smaller). Severian does not save\nBriah, but only Urth. \n\tI'm not trying in the least to diminish the religious overtones of the\nSeverian Quintet, but only trying to put them in context. As a human being\nfulfilling a human destiny under God, Severian is not only Christ-like, but\nalso like Apollo and like other human figures (and figures of human history\nand imagination). He is acting as a soldier in a much larger conflict\nbetween demons and angels (advocates of entropy, death, and advocates of\ntransfiguration, new life).\n\tJesus saves souls; Christians are supposed to save lives. With that in\nmind, you can see allegorical similarities between the Severian narrative\nand the gospels, but don't let them run roughshod over everything else.\n\tSome thoughts:\n\t1. The idea that a tiny country has the key to saving the Urth may relate\nto the call of the Jews to bring forth the Messiah to save the world.\n\t2. Compare Nessus to Jerusalem, at least in having named gates.\n\t3. The spaceport towers are also like a Cathedral, with a perverted\nmonastery (torturers), convent (witches), and sanctuary (sacrifices; beast\ntower), and a cemetery associated with it.\n\t4. Note the sacramental aspects. Numerous kinds of baptism early on,\nnumerous kinds of eucharists as we go (many are perverse distortions). \n\t5. Remember that you are in Byzantium, not in Judaism, in Medieval Western\nEurope, or in a Protestant or Enlightenment or Pagan culture.\n\t6. You asked how to interest people in these books. Well, the Severian\nnarratives are Wolfe's best but hardest stuff. You really need to have a SF\nbackground to \"get\" a lot of it, and most people don't. One thing to do,\nhowever, is find some of the really wonderful and stunning passages and\nquote them, such as the one about symbols making people instead of the\nother way around. (Duggan has that quotation at his website.) \n\nJust a few thought. Good luck. You're going to need it.\n\nAND, we EXPECT you to post it here also!!\n\nNutria" } ] } ] }