Subject: (urth) Sev's skull and spring constellations

From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 05:53:28 +0000

The recent discussion has prompted me to look once again at the end of Urth of 
the New Sun.  I think we can all agree that the skull that Severian finds at 
the bottom of the lake when he goes diving during the flood is the skull of a 
Severian who did in fact drown at the opening scene of the book, where the 
"new" Severian takes up his narrative.  Just as the narrator of Urth of the 
New Sun is different than the narrator of Book of the New Sun, I always 
thought that the narrator of Book of the New Sun was qualitatively different 
than the boy who died in the river.  Thinking about how Severian could be 
drowned and dead, and still revived and not be an eidolon all along, is a bit 
confusing to those (like me) who don't understand the full capabilities of the 
hierodules.  Notice that they definitely, absolutely, have the power to travel 
back in time.

Now I was wondering about the very odd "cross and the Unicorn" constellations 
that appear in the sky when the miracle of Apu-Punchau occurs and the long 
night of Urth heralds in Severian's identity as Sun God.  In the final 
post-script to his series, entitled "The Miracle of Apu-Punchau", Wolfe seems 
to be inviting the reader to come up with a viable large "opaque" object to 
cover the sun so that the long night can happen.  Then he goes on to say that 
the winter constellations that should appear over the stone town are 
inexplicably replaced by spring constellations (the cross and the unicorn, I 
presume).  I know that, at least in Asian mythology, the unicorn symbolizes 
either the birth or the death of a great man.  (the cross is obvious)

Mooncalf recently brought my attention to recent studies on solar sails and 
how they might be contiguous with mirrors.  So, are we to believe that the 
solar sails reflected constellations that were actually on the other side of 
the Urth, or are we to believe that a rift in the universe allowed the 
unexpected constellations to appear?  What else could have come through that 
rift?  Notice that at the very end of the chapter in which the long night 
occurs, Severian says that his shadow falls across the sun and Urth.  He has 
been somewhat wary of calling the world of the past Urth, but I need to read 
the whole thing again more carefully.  Also, remember the science of father 
Inire's mirrors: reflected light that leaves the universe and re-enters at 
another point must create an object to reflect that light at its new location.
 Remember all that weird blue glass on the planet Blue?  The first time I read 
it, it reminded me of the claw of the conciliator.  Especially knowing that 
the material which is actually the claw is a part of a bush.

If we think of the claw as a proto-Severian, or a world within a world, then 
perhaps light that passes through the claw and leaves the universe for 
whatever reason can indeed create something ... larger when it re-enters.

Marc Aramini

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From: Spectacled Bear <spectacled.bear at pobox.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:36:25 +0000

At 06:53 2003-07-07, maa32 wrote:
>unexpected constellations to appear?  

It's much simpler than that. If you hide the sun somehow (it doesn't
matter how) then you will see the stars that are normally obscured by
its glare. If the sun stays hidden, you would see a succession of different
constellations rise and set. By the normal time of sunset, the Earth would
have rotated to face the usual stars for the season.

Spectacled Bear.

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From: Matt DeLuca <archdragon at wotmania.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:31:45 +0000

huh?

BTW? Can someone please recap what the Miracle of Apu-Punchau was?

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From: Brandon Mason <suck_at_life at yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 05:44:46 +0000

--- Matt DeLuca <archdragon at wotmania.com> wrote:

huh?
 
BTW? Can someone please recap what the Miracle of
Apu-Punchau was?

Essentially, the Autocthons in the Stone Town in the
past (before Severian becomes or meets Apu Punchau)
are about to kill Severian, but they spare his life
because the rising of the sun is delayed while he is
telling them his story.  I think I got that right. 
Someone correct me if I am wrong.  Thus, the miracle
of Apu Punchau.  The afterword by Gene Wolfe explains
that the miracle is possibly an eclipse of some sort,
and leaves the reader to speculate on how it happened.
 A lot of people think the Heirodules ship blocked out
the sun, but I am sure there are tons of other
theories.  

And I agree with whoever said that the skull that
Severian finds while walking underwater is his own. 
Considering how many times Severian dies, its my
opinion that Wolfe wouldn't have even included the
detail about Severian finding the skull unless it was
for sure his own.

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From: Alice K. Turner <aturner6 at nyc.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 03:48:57 +0000

> BTW? Can someone please recap what the Miracle of Apu-Punchau was?

The miracle of Apu-Punchau was an eclipse. Or a supposed eclipse; actually,
as Wolfe makes (almost) clear in his afterword, it was the very large
starship Sanru passing across the sun. This "miracle" echoes the one in Mark
Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court--which was a genuine
eclipse. Wolfe is not so crass as to copy.

-alga

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From: Don Palumbo <enpalumb at earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:55:26 +0000

<html>
Of course, Wolfe is crass enough to copy, but he does it with such
incredible style and intelligence, and never without giving it a twist of
his own.  BNS has Joseph Campbell's monomyth coming out its mouth,
ears, nose, throat, and all its pores (and then just does it all over
again in URS); but BNS is likely the most compelling and clever (and
easily the most elaborate) reworking of this formula in SF, which is
saying a lot, because some of the other SF reworkings (all six original
DUNE books, THE STARS MY DESTINATION, and FLOWERS FOR ALGERNON among
them) are among the best SF novels ever written.  [btw, is this a
coincidence? I don't think so.]

I am about to begin writing a long scholarly article on this--and
probably won't be done writing it until the end of September or
later.  While it will be published in print, is there some way to
eventually post it on this site (which I just joined recently) for anyone
on this list who is interested to look at (and, hopefully, add their 2
cents worth to)?

--Don Palumbo

> BTW? Can someone please recap what the Miracle of Apu-Punchau
was?

The miracle of Apu-Punchau was an eclipse. Or a supposed eclipse;
actually,
as Wolfe makes (almost) clear in his afterword, it was the very
large
starship Sanru passing across the sun. This "miracle" echoes
the one in Mark
Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court--which was a
genuine
eclipse. Wolfe is not so crass as to copy.

-alga

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From: Lisa Schaffer-Doggett <harlekin at earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:36:11 +0000

On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 01:55 PM, Don Palumbo wrote:

> Of course, Wolfeis crass enough to copy, but he does it with such 
> incredible style and intelligence, and never without giving it a twist 
> of his own.  BNS has Joseph Campbell's monomyth coming out its mouth, 
> saying a lot, because some of the other SF reworkings (all six 
> original DUNE books, THE STARS MY DESTINATION, and FLOWERS FOR 
> ALGERNON among them) are among the best SF novels ever written.  [btw, 
> is this a coincidence? I don't think so.]
>
> eventually post it on this site (which I just joined recently) for 
> anyone on this list who is interested to look at (and, hopefully, add 
> their 2 cents worth to)?
>
> --Don Palumbo
>
>
Don (I am not the first Don) replies,

All writing is copying of some sort, and crassness isn't always a 
shortcoming.  You could submit your article to Ultan's Library.  I 
don't have the url but you can google it.  Or maybe link it to the 
Lupine Nuncio.  Again you must google.

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