{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4068",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4068,
    "subject": "Juturna and the skull",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2003-07-08T20:21:45+00:00",
    "last": "2003-07-08T20:47:51+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0307-3583@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "maa32",
        "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu"
      },
      "date": "2003-07-08T20:21:45+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Juturna and the skull",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "One thing has always bothered me about Sev's meeting with Juturna in Urth of \nthe New Sun: she doesn't know about saving him, but indicates that now that \nshe has been told, she will save him in the past and not allow him to drown.  \nDoes this imply that the Urth Severian is on at the conclusion of Urth of the \nNew Sun is a different iteration, a different timeline?  Has he traveled even \nfurther back into the previous cycle of existence?\n\nIf Juturna never saved him in that past timeline could the skull be his?  Then \nhow was he alive to wed Valeria?  The multiple lifelines are disturbing.  Is \nthere any way that Ash and the Green Man aren't mutually exclusive?  If the \nfuture Urth is dragged into a past cycle, then one planet can have the green \nman and the other can have master ash. It is quite clear that in some \ntime-lines Severian is not the New Sun, right?  The timelines in which he died \nas a child?  Or is that inconsequential?\n\nMarc Aramini"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0307-3586@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Chris",
        "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2003-07-08T20:47:51+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Juturna and the skull",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0307-3583@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Ash and the Green Man are only mutually exclusive beyond a certain critical \npoint of... for lack of something better to call it, the \"event tree\". The \ndiscussion Severian has with him indicates some kind of \"many worlds\" \ncosmology. Ash comes from an eventual branch of the tree where things do not \ngo well. He is able to travel back anywhere along the path from his eventual \nend to the beginning, but winks out of existence when he enters any branch \nof the tree which is not along his world's line.\n\nI think this is independent of the question of whether there are multiple \niterations of Severian (though as I said I don't think there really are).\n\nChris"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "One thing has always bothered me about Sev's meeting with Juturna in Urth \nof\nthe New Sun: she doesn't know about saving him, but indicates that now that\nshe has been told, she will save him in the past and not allow him to \ndrown.\nDoes this imply that the Urth Severian is on at the conclusion of Urth of \nthe\nNew Sun is a different iteration, a different timeline?  Has he traveled \neven\nfurther back into the previous cycle of existence?\n\nIf Juturna never saved him in that past timeline could the skull be his?  \nThen\nhow was he alive to wed Valeria?  The multiple lifelines are disturbing.  \nIs\nthere any way that Ash and the Green Man aren't mutually exclusive?  If the\nfuture Urth is dragged into a past cycle, then one planet can have the \ngreen\nman and the other can have master ash. It is quite clear that in some\ntime-lines Severian is not the New Sun, right?  The timelines in which he \ndied\nas a child?  Or is that inconsequential?\n\nMarc Aramini\n\n\n\n--"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}