# Juturna and the skull

*The Urth list — 2 messages, 2 voices, 08 Jul 2003*

<https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4068>

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### maa32
*08 Jul 2003, 20:21*

One thing has always bothered me about Sev's meeting with Juturna in Urth of 
the New Sun: she doesn't know about saving him, but indicates that now that 
she has been told, she will save him in the past and not allow him to drown.  
Does this imply that the Urth Severian is on at the conclusion of Urth of the 
New Sun is a different iteration, a different timeline?  Has he traveled even 
further back into the previous cycle of existence?

If Juturna never saved him in that past timeline could the skull be his?  Then 
how was he alive to wed Valeria?  The multiple lifelines are disturbing.  Is 
there any way that Ash and the Green Man aren't mutually exclusive?  If the 
future Urth is dragged into a past cycle, then one planet can have the green 
man and the other can have master ash. It is quite clear that in some 
time-lines Severian is not the New Sun, right?  The timelines in which he died 
as a child?  Or is that inconsequential?

Marc Aramini

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### Chris
*08 Jul 2003, 20:47 · follows maa32*

Ash and the Green Man are only mutually exclusive beyond a certain critical 
point of... for lack of something better to call it, the "event tree". The 
discussion Severian has with him indicates some kind of "many worlds" 
cosmology. Ash comes from an eventual branch of the tree where things do not 
go well. He is able to travel back anywhere along the path from his eventual 
end to the beginning, but winks out of existence when he enters any branch 
of the tree which is not along his world's line.

I think this is independent of the question of whether there are multiple 
iterations of Severian (though as I said I don't think there really are).

Chris

> One thing has always bothered me about Sev's meeting with Juturna in Urth 
> of
> the New Sun: she doesn't know about saving him, but indicates that now that
> she has been told, she will save him in the past and not allow him to 
> drown.
> Does this imply that the Urth Severian is on at the conclusion of Urth of 
> the
> New Sun is a different iteration, a different timeline?  Has he traveled 
> even
> further back into the previous cycle of existence?
> 
> If Juturna never saved him in that past timeline could the skull be his?  
> Then
> how was he alive to wed Valeria?  The multiple lifelines are disturbing.  
> Is
> there any way that Ash and the Green Man aren't mutually exclusive?  If the
> future Urth is dragged into a past cycle, then one planet can have the 
> green
> man and the other can have master ash. It is quite clear that in some
> time-lines Severian is not the New Sun, right?  The timelines in which he 
> died
> as a child?  Or is that inconsequential?
> 
> Marc Aramini
> 
> 
> 
> --

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