{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4093", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4093, "subject": "Malrubius/Silk", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2003-07-14T03:11:10+00:00", "last": "2003-07-20T01:05:41+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Bollen", "address": "abollen at internode.on.net" }, "date": "2003-07-14T03:11:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Malrubius/Silk", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, on the topic of Silk confused as Malrubius: yes, Gurloe's fear in\nChapter 19 of RttW was the primary area, but I also thought that Brother\nPorter saw Silk and thought he was Malrubius as well. I thought there\nwere\ntwo occurences of this. I'll look again." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Porter is spooked by Silk, Hoof etc, but it seems to be mainly Hoof\nquickly fashioning a robe for himself while the Porter is watching him which\ndoes it.\n\n\"So I made them as fast as I could while he was looking at me, and oit was\nprobably a mistake .... Brother Porter opened the gate for us anyway, but he\nwas tembling ...\" (Ch 19)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2003-07-18T16:16:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Malrubius/silk", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My problem with regarding Malrubius' eidolon as Silk throughout BotNS is the \nexplicit rationale for Malrubius and his presence with Triskele. Does \nMalrubius' advice seem like something that Silk would spout? Silk is a bit \nmore of a preacher type with a devout message ... and that would mean that the \nhierodules who maintain the image of Malrubius would have to be discounted or \nlabeled as \"vanished people\", which they aren't. The way that Wolfe \nseamlessly integrated a rationale for the absence of the guard at the gate in \nthe opening scenes of Shadow of the Torturer leads me to believe that anything \nhe threw in wouldn't destroy the continuity like having Silk be malrubius' \nghost (and the only Malrubius ghost that Severian would meet).\n\nUnless one wants to rationalize the close kinship of Triskele with Malrubius \nin TBotNS by stating that Silk met and hung out with Triskele in RttW, so that \nwould explain how Malrubius becomes an intimate acquiantance with the dog if, \nindeed, he was Silk instead of Malrubius. That scheme would require some \nsevere retrofitting:\n\na)vanished people must be hierodules\nb)Silk's astral voyages must be considered eidolon-like\nc) all of the commentary about Severian's youth or his experiences that \nMalrubius relates in TBOTNS must be considered lies or \"altered\"\nd) Malrubius' explanation at end of Citadel of the Autarch of what an eidolon \nis cannot be strictly factual, if he is actually alive somewhen else, being \nmaintained in that universe by an artifact of the vanished people/hierodules\ne)Severian must have a reason for substituting a new character for a master \nfrom his past, because he has no qualms about travelers like The Green Man and \nMaster Ash, and identifying them by their \"real identities\". If anything, \nSilk is more believable than them.\n\nI don't think it works, really.\n\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lisa Schaffer-Doggett", "address": "harlekin at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2003-07-20T01:05:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Malrubius/silk", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Don repeats, possibly unnecessarily:\n\nWhy can't the Malrubius eidolon simply be Sev's memory of Silk? This \nis a much cleaner and more consistent explanation than having Silk \nguide Sev through his entire journey." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 09:16 AM, maa32 wrote:\nMy problem with regarding Malrubius' eidolon as Silk throughout BotNS \nis the\nexplicit rationale for Malrubius and his presence with Triskele. Does\nMalrubius' advice seem like something that Silk would spout? Silk is \na bit\nmore of a preacher type with a devout message ... and that would mean \nthat the\nhierodules who maintain the image of Malrubius would have to be \ndiscounted or\nlabeled as \"vanished people\", which they aren't. The way that Wolfe\nseamlessly integrated a rationale for the absence of the guard at the \ngate in\nthe opening scenes of Shadow of the Torturer leads me to believe that \nanything\nhe threw in wouldn't destroy the continuity like having Silk be \nmalrubius'\nghost (and the only Malrubius ghost that Severian would meet).\n\nUnless one wants to rationalize the close kinship of Triskele with \nMalrubius\nin TBotNS by stating that Silk met and hung out with Triskele in RttW, \nso that\nwould explain how Malrubius becomes an intimate acquiantance with the \ndog if,\nindeed, he was Silk instead of Malrubius. That scheme would require \nsome\nsevere retrofitting:\n\na)vanished people must be hierodules\nb)Silk's astral voyages must be considered eidolon-like\nc) all of the commentary about Severian's youth or his experiences that\nMalrubius relates in TBOTNS must be considered lies or \"altered\"\nd) Malrubius' explanation at end of Citadel of the Autarch of what an \neidolon\nis cannot be strictly factual, if he is actually alive somewhen else, \nbeing\nmaintained in that universe by an artifact of the vanished \npeople/hierodules\ne)Severian must have a reason for substituting a new character for a \nmaster\nfrom his past, because he has no qualms about travelers like The Green \nMan and\nMaster Ash, and identifying them by their \"real identities\". If \nanything,\nSilk is more believable than them.\n\nI don't think it works, really.\n\nMarc Aramini\n\n\n\n-- " } ] } ] }