{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4114", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4114, "subject": "Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "messages": 27, "voices": 10, "first": "2003-07-26T20:18:18+00:00", "last": "2003-08-01T14:09:44+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-26T20:35:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Don writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yeah I know. I was just angry, which is why I labeled it a rant in \nforewarning. It sounds like something good might spring from this \nthough. I hope that at least those who know him personally will convey \nhow much he is respected as a writer by everyone on this list. I \nstill don't think much of writing workshops but who knows, maybe that's \nmy loss." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hey Don,\n\nHow much would you pay to hang out with Gene Wolfe for a week and talk\nabout whatever he wanted to talk about? I am really getting away from\nthe workshop concept: since it is not conceivable that we will have \nenough money to offer any writer a reasonable fee, I want this to be\nmuch more fun than it is work for the writer. Few people will turn \ndown an all-expenses paid vacation. If it is actually an attempt to\nget them to work for free or cheap, many people will resent the attempt\nand not want to have anything to do with it.\n\nBy the way, I am discussing this idea with some of my friends and\nassociates, and the feeling seems to be that it is an idea with \nsome general potential. \n\nHere is what I would like to happen right now: people on this list\nwho would be willing to pay approximately $200 to hang out with Gene\nWolfe for a week should sound off. People who are willing to pay \napproximately $50 to participate in the electronic real-time link \nthat will be set up during each session should also sound off, and \nwould someone who knows Gene Wolfe personally please ask him what he\nthinks of the idea and pass that on to the list?\n\nAnyone who has any suggestions that do not involve doing something\ncompletely different in Chicago or somewhere else should also please\nspeak and not hold their peace.\n\nOr we can return to wrangling over minutiae. That is always an option.\n\n\nJ.\n\n___" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2003-07-26T20:18:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Errrr. Josh? Where *do* you live?\n\n-- Crush\n\n----- Original Message ----- " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Josh Geller\" \nHere is what I would like to happen right now: people on this list\nwho would be willing to pay approximately $200 to hang out with Gene\nWolfe for a week should sound off. " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-26T20:48:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Here's a detail that might make this more attractive as a general\nproposal:\n\nEverything in the sessions will be recorded, transcribed, marketed and\n(if possible) published, with any profits to be split 50/50 between the\nauthor and the entity doing the symposiums.\n\nThere are a lot of writers who don't get anything like the respect they\ndeserve because they have been classified as SF writers, and most SF\nfans don't like them for whatever reason. Wolfe, Crowley and Patricia\nAnthony are the three that leap to mind; I am sure that there are\nothers. \n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-26T20:49:55+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The center of the World, of course.\n\nEast San Jose.\n\nBut really, this could be done anywhere in the Bay Area.\n\nIt's centrally located!\n\nJ.\n\n___" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 13:18, James Wynn wrote:\nErrrr. Josh? Where *do* you live?\n\n-- Crush\n\n----- Original Message ----- \nFrom: \"Josh Geller\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Here is what I would like to happen right now: people on this list\nwho would be willing to pay approximately $200 to hang out with Gene\nWolfe for a week should sound off. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lisa Schaffer-Doggett", "address": "harlekin at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2003-07-26T20:31:59+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 01:35 PM, Josh Geller wrote:\n\nHey Don,\n\nHow much would you pay to hang out with Gene Wolfe for a week and talk\nabout whatever he wanted to talk about? I am really getting away from\nthe workshop concept: since it is not conceivable that we will have\nenough money to offer any writer a reasonable fee, I want this to be\nmuch more fun than it is work for the writer. Few people will turn\ndown an all-expenses paid vacation. If it is actually an attempt to\nget them to work for free or cheap, many people will resent the attempt\nand not want to have anything to do with it.\n\nBy the way, I am discussing this idea with some of my friends and\nassociates, and the feeling seems to be that it is an idea with\nsome general potential.\n\nHere is what I would like to happen right now: people on this list\nwho would be willing to pay approximately $200 to hang out with Gene\nWolfe for a week should sound off. People who are willing to pay\napproximately $50 to participate in the electronic real-time link\nthat will be set up during each session should also sound off, and\nwould someone who knows Gene Wolfe personally please ask him what he\nthinks of the idea and pass that on to the list?\n\nAnyone who has any suggestions that do not involve doing something\ncompletely different in Chicago or somewhere else should also please\nspeak and not hold their peace.\n\nOr we can return to wrangling over minutiae. That is always an option.\n\n\nJ." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's a good idea in theory. I would imagine there would have to be \nsome really strong ground rules to keep Mr. Wolfe from being \noverwhelmed, and there's the question of where it would be so that the \nmost people could attend. I also have my doubts whether he'd be into \nit. If those issues are addressed, I'm all for it. Maybe it could be \ncoincided with some event that Mr. Wolfe is interested in attending?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lisa Schaffer-Doggett", "address": "harlekin at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2003-07-26T20:36:48+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 01:49 PM, Josh Geller wrote:\nThe center of the World, of course.\n\nEast San Jose.\n\nBut really, this could be done anywhere in the Bay Area.\n\nIt's centrally located!\n\nJ." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Don pipes in:\n\nI'm in Santa Cruz. That's two. But this place is mondo expensive, \neven to visit. Merging this idea with a convention sounds ideal." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-26T21:12:44+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 13:31, Lisa Schaffer-Doggett wrote:\nIt's a good idea in theory. I would imagine there would have to be \nsome really strong ground rules to keep Mr. Wolfe from being \noverwhelmed, " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Absolutely." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " and there's the question of where it would be so that the \nmost people could attend. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If I am to have anything to do with it, it will be in the Bay Area, or\nat least the first one will be.\n\nIf someone else wants to do it without me, somewhere else, please do\ngo ahead!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I also have my doubts whether he'd be into \nit. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hopefully at some point we will know. And then I will either start doing\nsome actual work on the project, or I will shut up and go back to \nshaking my head sadly while y'all argue as to whether Hyacinth was a\nmale chem or whether Gene Wolfe has a perfect memory.\n\n\n\n.\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-26T21:22:26+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 13:36, Don wrote:\nOn Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 01:49 PM, Josh Geller wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The center of the World, of course." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "East San Jose." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But really, this could be done anywhere in the Bay Area." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "It's centrally located!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm in Santa Cruz. That's two. But this place is mondo expensive, \neven to visit. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am thinking of ways to make it much less expensive.\n\nProviding one fine meal a day, snacks and beverages will help.\n\nCan't do much about transportation costs, but I do have quite a bit\nof floor space in my house, if anyone is coming who is OK with sleeping\non people's floors. I would be willing, since we are talking about\nlimiting this to 12 real-time participants, to put up at least some of\nthem. I'd provide breakfast for anyone in the house." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Merging this idea with a convention sounds ideal." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I tend not to agree.\n\nPerhaps doing this for a weekend, as opposed to a whole week, might be\nfor the best, at least for the first time or two times.\n\nAnyone who does mention this to Gene Wolfe should please ask him to set\nout every condition that he can think of. Anyone else who can think of\nsuggestions to make something like this perfectly comfortable for the\nwriter and reasonably comfortable for the other participants should also\nfeel free to tell me about it. Send me private email if you don't want\nto say it on the list.\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2003-07-26T20:57:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "LOL What sort of things do you think people will talk about at the\nsymposium?\n;-)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hopefully at some point we will know. And then I will either start doing\nsome actual work on the project, or I will shut up and go back to\nshaking my head sadly while y'all argue as to whether Hyacinth was a\nmale chem or whether Gene Wolfe has a perfect memory." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-26T21:30:53+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Whatever Gene Wolfe wants to talk about, is the plan. This event is for\nthe writer more than it is for the other participant, though I hope and\nexpect that they will be finding it worthwhile.\n\nI got really pissed off hearing about how Wolfe was treated. I prefer\ndoing things to talking about things, as a general rule.\n\n\nJ.\n\n___" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 13:57, James Wynn wrote:\nLOL What sort of things do you think people will talk about at the\nsymposium?\n;-)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hopefully at some point we will know. And then I will either start doing\nsome actual work on the project, or I will shut up and go back to\nshaking my head sadly while y'all argue as to whether Hyacinth was a\nmale chem or whether Gene Wolfe has a perfect memory." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2003-07-26T21:32:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I would definitely be willing to participate. The timing and location would \nbe important, of course." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Here's a detail that might make this more attractive as a general\nproposal:\n\nEverything in the sessions will be recorded, transcribed, marketed and\n(if possible) published, with any profits to be split 50/50 between the\nauthor and the entity doing the symposiums.\n\nThere are a lot of writers who don't get anything like the respect they\ndeserve because they have been classified as SF writers, and most SF\nfans don't like them for whatever reason. Wolfe, Crowley and Patricia\nAnthony are the three that leap to mind; I am sure that there are\nothers.\n\n\n\n.\n\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-26T22:12:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Assuming Gene Wolfe is interested in doing this, timing is very open and\nwould be arranged for convenience, with (as I mentioned) the writer's \nconvenience coming before the other participant's convenience, though\nhopefully we would make everybody reasonably happy.\n\n\nJ.\n\n___" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 14:32, Chris wrote:\nI would definitely be willing to participate. The timing and location would \nbe important, of course." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Here's a detail that might make this more attractive as a general\nproposal:\n\nEverything in the sessions will be recorded, transcribed, marketed and\n(if possible) published, with any profits to be split 50/50 between the\nauthor and the entity doing the symposiums.\n\nThere are a lot of writers who don't get anything like the respect they\ndeserve because they have been classified as SF writers, and most SF\nfans don't like them for whatever reason. Wolfe, Crowley and Patricia\nAnthony are the three that leap to mind; I am sure that there are\nothers.\n\n\n\n.\n\n\n\n--" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_________________________________________________________________\nThe new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* \nhttp://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2003-07-26T22:53:11+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, all things being equal, I'm in.\n\n\n-- Crush" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-26T23:35:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's great.\n\nHopefully Gene Wolfe will let us know under what conditions he would be \nwilling to do this, and I can get to work.\n\n\nJ.\n\n___" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 15:53, James Wynn wrote:\nWell, all things being equal, I'm in.\n\n\n-- Crush\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "silk tree", "address": "albizia at feafaroth.org" }, "date": "2003-07-27T14:40:04+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I would be interested in a Wolfe symposium or even a symposium of \nObscure but excellent authors on order of Wolfe and Crowley. This year \nis bad for me because I'm not sure I could raise the money to travel to \nSan Jose. If this actually does happen, I hope there is a chance of \nmaking it an annual event, or perhaps at least every so often type of \nevent. (or maybe we could invite different authors every year?)\n\nBtw, I did not mean to offend Josh by suggesting a con event. I was \njust trying to make logistics easier. Good luck in your plans.\n\nmimosa" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-27T15:46:36+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, 2003-07-27 at 07:40, silk tree wrote:\nI would be interested in a Wolfe symposium or even a symposium of \nObscure but excellent authors on order of Wolfe and Crowley. This year \nis bad for me because I'm not sure I could raise the money to travel to \nSan Jose. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I doubt strongly that it will happen this year. If and when I do start\ndoing the actual work on this, I will be asking for input from people\nwho have said that they might want to go. There's no reason not to plan\nit for the convenience of as many people as possible." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " If this actually does happen, I hope there is a chance of \nmaking it an annual event, or perhaps at least every so often type of \nevent. (or maybe we could invite different authors every year?)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Either or both would be great with me. But first, of course, I would\nlike to do it one time. If it works, and I don't lose any money, and\nI don't see why it shouldn't be an every-so-often event." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Btw, I did not mean to offend Josh by suggesting a con event." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You didn't!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I was \njust trying to make logistics easier." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Please, if you want to do the same thing doing in Chicago sometime,\nI think it would be great. If this is successful, I think that people\nwill be doing it all over." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Good luck in your plans." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thank you!\n\nJ.\n\n___" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Brandon Mason", "address": "suck_at_life at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2003-07-27T18:43:49+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I would like to attend. I am located in Kentucky, and\nI could see myself taking a bus as long as the ride\nwasn't lets say over 40 hours? $200.00 seems more\nthan fair to me, and I would probably be willing to\npay more than that if necessary. But, if there is\nanyone else that would want to go (12 person limit\nright?) they could have my place. I'm extremely\ninterested in this, but I don't want to knock anyone\nelse out of getting to go that wants to. Especially\nif they aren't that far away from where this would be\nheld at.\n\n-BM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-27T19:19:30+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, 2003-07-27 at 11:43, Brandon Mason wrote:\nI would like to attend. I am located in Kentucky, and\nI could see myself taking a bus as long as the ride\nwasn't lets say over 40 hours? $200.00 seems more\nthan fair to me, and I would probably be willing to\npay more than that if necessary. But, if there is\nanyone else that would want to go (12 person limit\nright?) they could have my place. I'm extremely\ninterested in this, but I don't want to knock anyone\nelse out of getting to go that wants to. Especially\nif they aren't that far away from where this would be\nheld at." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think, if it happens at all, it is going to be the first twelve \npeople to put a deposit down. Either that or some kind of lottery.\n\nAs always, I welcome comments and input.\n\n\nJ.\n\n___" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "katbarx at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2003-07-28T15:52:47+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I was going to say something about this and then forgot.\n\nWhile I would very much like to be a part of something like this, and in \nfact live in the\nright part of the world - the east bay to be semi-precise -- in fact, my \nbeloved Spousal\nOverunit went to hiskul in East San Jose - I do not believe it likely to \nhappen.\n\nMy expectation is that, confronted with the suggestion of such a thing, Mr. \nWolfe is\nlikely to regard it as the concoction of a gaggle of hero-worshipping \nfanboys (and\n-girls), and to conclude that his gradually decreasing store of time would \nbe\nbetter spent working on the continuation of Latro's tale. Quite rightly, in \nmy opinion.\n\nStill, if I'm totally wrong about this and you convince him, count me in." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-28T16:40:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 08:52, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nI was going to say something about this and then forgot." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "While I would very much like to be a part of something like this, and in \nfact live in the right part of the world - the east bay to be semi-precise \n-- in fact, my beloved Spousal Overunit went to hiskul in East San\nJose - I do not believe it likely to happen." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For your information, I live in a three bedroom house with a big yard\nand garden in a very nice, very middle class, very quiet neighborhood.\n\nThere are rough neighborhoods in East San Jose, some of them not too \nfar away. Mine, however, is very quiet and peaceful. \n\nI am sorry. There really is no polite way to say 'fuck you, white boy'.\n\nI am ashamed." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "My expectation is that, confronted with the suggestion of such a thing, Mr. \nWolfe is likely to regard it as the concoction of a gaggle of \nhero-worshippin fanboys (and -girls), " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thank you for your encouragement and support." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Still, if I'm totally wrong about this and you convince him, count me in." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If this thing works at all, it will be done either on a first come,\nfirst served basis, or by a lottery.\n\nIn either case you will have the same chance as everybody else to\nparticipate.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2003-07-28T15:49:33+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You astonish me.\n\nThere is no polite way to say \"fuck you, jew boy\" either, but the fact that\nyou are presumably jewish does not give you a free pass to deal out racial\ninsults like this.\n\nYou owe the whole list an apology.\n\n hartshorn\n\n\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Josh Geller\" brunians at brunians.org\n\nI am sorry. There really is no polite way to say 'fuck you, white boy'.\n\nI am ashamed." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-28T18:08:05+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 08:49, Andy Robertson wrote:\nYou astonish me." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah, I astonish myself sometimes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There is no polite way to say \"fuck you, jew boy\" either, but the fact that\nyou are presumably jewish does not give you a free pass to deal out racial\ninsults like this." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What does being a Jew have to do with anything? I am, in fact, \nethnically ashkenazi, but everyone who sees me considers me to\nbe a white person, as I consider myself to be a white person.\n\nAshkenazi are all pretty white, and about half of us aren't even \na little bit middle-eastern looking." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You owe the whole list an apology." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't see that. I didn't insult the whole list. I insulted Dan,\nand I have apologized to Dan.\n\nIf you feel insulted by my insulting Dan, I suppose it doesn't cost\nme anything to apologize to you. I'm sorry, Andy. \n\n\n\n\n." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "2003-07-29T04:58:15+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well we've had an unpleasantness on this list and once again I am \nextremely impressed by the enormous self-restraint and impeccable \ngood manners of the vast majority of members of this list (myself \nexcluded, of course)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:08 AM -0700 7/28/03, Josh Geller wrote:\nOn Mon, 2003-07-28 at 08:49, Andy Robertson wrote:\n > You owe the whole list an apology.\n\nI don't see that. I didn't insult the whole list. I insulted Dan,\nand I have apologized to Dan." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In my opinion, Josh, posting the insult to the list rather than \nsending it as a private email is the equivalent of causing a scene in \na public place and therefore you do owe the list as a whole an \napology.\n\nI agree with Dan'l that your Wolfe get-together is almost certainly \nnot going to happen for the same reasons he gives. And you have, \nperhaps, made the odds of the success of the project an infinitesimal \nbit smaller by your demonstration of your highly developed ability to \nover-react to non-existent provocation. There was an extremely tiny \nbut non-zero chance I might have decided to participate and pay a fee \nfor at least a virtual membership in this event before your \nill-considered remarks, but now the chance of my participation is \nzero.\n\nI don't expect you be impressed by the above statement or care about \nmy opinion at all. But if you now hesitate just a bit longer before \nyou hit the send button after having written your next \"hot-headed\" \nreply then I will feel my message has served a useful purpose." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "William Ansley\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-29T05:37:14+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 21:58, William Ansley wrote:\nAt 11:08 AM -0700 7/28/03, Josh Geller wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 08:49, Andy Robertson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well we've had an unpleasantness on this list and once again I am \nextremely impressed by the enormous self-restraint and impeccable \ngood manners of the vast majority of members of this list (myself \nexcluded, of course)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "You owe the whole list an apology." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I don't see that. I didn't insult the whole list. I insulted Dan,\nand I have apologized to Dan." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In my opinion, Josh, posting the insult to the list rather than \nsending it as a private email is the equivalent of causing a scene in \na public place and therefore you do owe the list as a whole an \napology." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well! You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it.\n\nBut it is obvious that you are offended, and I don't mind apologizing\nto you.\n\nI'm sorry, William.\n\nIf you can give a better explanation as to how I insulted the list as \na corporate whole, one that convinces me, I will be perfectly happy\nto issue a blanket apology. But really, I feel it is more meaningful\nif the people who feel insulted - like Andy and yourself - tell me\nabout it in front of the list, and give me an opportunity to apologize\nto each one of you individually, also in front of the list.\n\nThank you very much for giving me this opportunity to apologize to you.\n\n\nJosh\n\n\n___" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Brandon Mason", "address": "suck_at_life at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2003-07-29T06:10:55+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You insulted me as well Josh. Really.\n\nJust joking...\n\nLighten up people." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Greg Warden", "address": "gwarden at fastmail.fm" }, "date": "2003-08-01T11:46:38+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A agree that a weekend (3-day perhaps) would be better. Less risk for GW,\neasier to coordinate, etc.\n\n(and I would be interested, most likely)\n\ngreg" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Greg Warden\n gwarden at fastmail.fm <-- note the new address\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-08-01T14:09:44+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Proposed Gene Wolfe Symposium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 04:46, Greg Warden wrote:\nA agree that a weekend (3-day perhaps) would be better. Less risk for GW,\neasier to coordinate, etc." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(and I would be interested, most likely)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI'm still waiting to hear, one way or another, about GW's interest\nor lack of same in this. Might take a while to do so.\n\n\nJ.\n\n___" } ] } ] }