{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4124", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4124, "subject": "Baldanders, Delany, Blattid", "messages": 6, "voices": 5, "first": "2003-07-28T19:48:41+00:00", "last": "2003-07-29T21:26:04+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2003-07-28T19:48:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Baldanders, Delany, Blattid", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In an attempt to calm the waters (not without some risk), I'd like to shift\nthe topic a bit.\n\nA week ago Josh asked/made his statement about Baldanders being based on\nDelany as clearly to him (Josh) as Ultan is based on Borges.\n\nBlattid is our Designated Delany expert, and I would like him to address\nJosh's notion. Others can chime in as well.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Bollen", "address": "abollen at internode.on.net" }, "date": "2003-07-28T23:09:34+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Baldanders, Delany, Blattid", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mantis offered:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A week ago Josh asked/made his statement about Baldanders being based on\nDelany as clearly to him (Josh) as Ultan is based on Borges.\n\nBlattid is our Designated Delany expert, and I would like him to address\nJosh's notion. Others can chime in as well." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Pedophilia? One slim pornographic work by Delany which was chock full of it;\ncan't remember the name." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-29T00:06:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Baldanders, Delany, Blattid", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 16:09, Andrew Bollen wrote:\nmantis offered:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "A week ago Josh asked/made his statement about Baldanders being based on\nDelany as clearly to him (Josh) as Ultan is based on Borges." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Blattid is our Designated Delany expert, and I would like him to address\nJosh's notion. Others can chime in as well." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Pedophilia? One slim pornographic work by Delany which was chock full of it;\ncan't remember the name." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You are probably thinking of 'Hogg'. Delany, BTW, questions its\nappellation as 'pornography'. He said, if I recall correctly,\nthat people read pornography to become sexually excited, and he\ndidn't know anyone who read 'Hogg' to become sexually excited. He\ndescribed it as a realistic novel about sex and violence. I have\nnot read 'Hogg', but I have read Delany's other so-called \n'pornographic' work, 'The Mad Man'. This is the only Delany that I\nhave not been able to read multiple times. It is the opposite of\nslim. It is brilliantly written, like everything he writes, but it \nis strong and disturbing. Without getting too confessional here, \nI can say that most sexual things that freak out men in my \ndemographic don't bother me, but there was stuff in 'The Mad Man' \nthat bothered me. I believe I will read it again, sometime. Not\nfor a while.\n\nYou see, I suspect that Gene Wolfe considers Borges and Delany both\nto be better writers than he is. I don't know if I would agree with \nthat, but it is my perception of his perception, and like all such\nthings could be totally wrong. I don't normally talk about this kind\nof thing, and ask your kind indulgences if I am in any way unclear.\n\nMaster Ultan stands head and shoulders above Severian. Baldanders is\ngigantic, monstrous, larger than Severian in all ways. Baldanders is \nup to no good. Still, Severian can't help but like and respect \nBaldanders, although they look at things very differently. Severian \ncan't even bring himself to believe that Baldanders was boofing his \nforce grown boyfriend, there. Why not? This is a man who eviscerates \nwomen and puts them under bell jars, after all.\n\nThese are some of my thoughts on the matter. There are others. Why did\nthe innkeeper call Baldanders Baldy? He's not bald. \n\nMay the hour of my silence return.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matt Weber", "address": "mweber at library.berkeley.edu" }, "date": "2003-07-29T00:01:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Baldanders, Delany, Blattid", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis offered:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "A week ago Josh asked/made his statement about Baldanders being based on\nDelany as clearly to him (Josh) as Ultan is based on Borges.\n\nBlattid is our Designated Delany expert, and I would like him to address\nJosh's notion. Others can chime in as well." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Pedophilia? One slim pornographic work by Delany which was chock full of it;\ncan't remember the name." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think that's EQUINOX, yes? I don't think it was especially \npedophiliac, though--pretty much any perversity that Delany could \nthink up seemed to have been included.\n\n\n\nMatt\n\nGo, for they call you, Shepherd, from the hill.\n\tMatthew Arnold (1822-1888), The Scholar-Gipsy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-07-29T00:41:09+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Baldanders, Delany, Blattid", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 17:01, Matt Weber wrote:\nmantis offered:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "A week ago Josh asked/made his statement about Baldanders being based on\nDelany as clearly to him (Josh) as Ultan is based on Borges." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Blattid is our Designated Delany expert, and I would like him to address\nJosh's notion. Others can chime in as well." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Pedophilia? One slim pornographic work by Delany which was chock full of it;\ncan't remember the name." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think that's EQUINOX, yes? I don't think it was especially \npedophiliac, though--pretty much any perversity that Delany could \nthink up seemed to have been included." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think I've even heard of that one.\n\nAs I say, I have not read 'Hogg'. I am given to understand, however,\nthat one of the main characters (perhaps the viewpoint) is a seven\nyear old prostitute.\n\nI don't recall 'The Mad Man' containing any pedophilia. I don't believe\nthat it did. However, it did contain a lot of other stuff.\n\nFolks, Samuel R. Delany is a homosexual man who, by his own account, has\nbeen sexually active since the early fifties. I wouldn't assume that he\ndoes, has done, or even likes the idea of doing all of the sexual things\nthat he describes in his fiction. But that he has certain knowledge of a\nlot of things that would disturb many, perhaps most of the readers on \nthis list (not excluding myself) can be taken for granted. \n\nI am really sort of sorry that I ever brought this up.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Matt\n\nGo, for they call you, Shepherd, from the hill.\n\tMatthew Arnold (1822-1888), The Scholar-Gipsy\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "katbarx at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2003-07-29T21:26:04+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Baldanders, Delany, Blattid", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A yuge correspondance later ... I finally seed this ..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A week ago Josh asked/made his statement about Baldanders being based on\nDelany as clearly to him (Josh) as Ultan is based on Borges.\n\nBlattid is our Designated Delany expert, and I would like him to address\nJosh's notion. Others can chime in as well." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I have to admit that _I_ can't undersee it, but have to add that Josh \nreasings\nin a key outside the strange of my hearing. I just don't get Qaballa.\n\nBaldanders and Dr T* have seemed to me from my first purrousal of _Shadow_ \nto\nbe a marvelous ploy withon the Mad Scientist And His Monster archetrope. \nWhile\nplaying with such things does have a nouvaguely Delanish aire, many aothrs \npley\ndissimularly, enrough so that, widdowt some more spacific detrayal (than a \nscrabbled\nlatter pizzle) I woodink it a coincidance.\n\n--Blah Ted" } ] } ] }