{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4150", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4150, "subject": "What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "messages": 10, "voices": 8, "first": "2003-08-07T15:52:08+00:00", "last": "2003-08-08T16:47:35+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Don Palumbo", "address": "enpalumb at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2003-08-07T17:46:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\nAn easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE\nBOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? \nDoes Severian still have it by the time he returns to Nessus as Autarch,\nor does he lose it sometime after he reads the \"Tale of a Boy Called\nFrog\" to little Severian, perhaps around Lake Diuturna, where both\nTerminus Est and the Claw are destroyed?\n\n--Don Palumbo" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "2003-08-07T15:52:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 10:46 AM 8/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:\nAn easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE BOOK \nOF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? [...]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Don,\n\nI don't remember.\n\nHowever, with Wolfe, especially on this discussion list, there may be easy \nquestions, but there are no easy answers. " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2003-08-07T16:41:59+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Don Palumbo wrote:\nAn easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE\nBOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? Does\nSeverian still have it by the time he returns to Nessus as Autarch, or\ndoes he lose it sometime after he reads the \"Tale of a Boy Called Frog\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "to little Severian, perhaps around Lake Diuturna, where both\nTerminus Est and the Claw are destroyed?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Citadel, chapter 34: Severian still has it when he returns to the\nCitadel; he intends to keep it, and hopes that the sight of him\ncarrying it will inspire more reading.\n\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "teflon93", "address": "teflon93 at cox.net" }, "date": "2003-08-07T19:09:28+00:00", "subject": "Re: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The larger question is why Severian needs a book at all when he's got a photographic memory. One reading should be sufficient.\n \nTeflon93" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Michael Andre-Driussi \nDate: 2003/08/07 Thu PM 12:41:59 EDT\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY\n\nDon Palumbo wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "An easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE\nBOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? Does\nSeverian still have it by the time he returns to Nessus as Autarch, or\ndoes he lose it sometime after he reads the \"Tale of a Boy Called Frog\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "to little Severian, perhaps around Lake Diuturna, where both\nTerminus Est and the Claw are destroyed?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Citadel, chapter 34: Severian still has it when he returns to the\nCitadel; he intends to keep it, and hopes that the sight of him\ncarrying it will inspire more reading.\n\n\n=mantis=\n\n\n\n-- " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2003-08-07T19:42:07+00:00", "subject": "Re: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I believe that Severian says enough to indicate that he feels much the way \nWolfe does on the subject of books, and it's a feeling I share. The idea of \nkeeping a special book that you already know by heart doesn't seem strange \nto me. Opening the physical book and re-reading the pages, no matter how \nwell you remember them, is a pleasure rather than a practical concern.\n\nCivet" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The larger question is why Severian needs a book at all when he's got a \nphotographic memory. One reading should be sufficient.\n\nTeflon93" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: Michael Andre-Driussi \nDate: 2003/08/07 Thu PM 12:41:59 EDT\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY\n\nDon Palumbo wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "An easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE\nBOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? Does\nSeverian still have it by the time he returns to Nessus as Autarch, or\ndoes he lose it sometime after he reads the \"Tale of a Boy Called Frog\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "to little Severian, perhaps around Lake Diuturna, where both\nTerminus Est and the Claw are destroyed?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Citadel, chapter 34: Severian still has it when he returns to the\nCitadel; he intends to keep it, and hopes that the sight of him\ncarrying it will inspire more reading.\n\n\n=mantis=\n\n\n\n--" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Bollen", "address": "abollen at internode.on.net" }, "date": "2003-08-07T22:20:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I know there was some discussion of this, sometime, but I can't find it on a quick search. Sev fetches four books for Thecla - Wonders, a book of devotions, something to do with heraldry, and another one. Hope I've got that right - anyway, I recall that three of the books were described in at least some detail, but one wasn't, which in Wolfe world usually means we're supposed to ask questions about it. Thoughts?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ashley Crill", "address": "ashley.crill at student.oc.edu" }, "date": "2003-08-08T05:46:07+00:00", "subject": "RE: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Severian mentions at one point in Claw that he has never read the entire book. Perhaps he never finishes the thing during his journey.\n\n\t-----Original Message----- \n\tFrom: teflon93 at cox.net [mailto:teflon93 at cox.net] \n\tSent: Thu 8/7/2003 2:09 PM \n\tTo: urth at urth.net \n\tCc: \n\tSubject: Re: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY\n\t\n\t\n\n\tThe larger question is why Severian needs a book at all when he's got a photographic memory. One reading should be sufficient.\n\t\n\t" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mooncalf", "address": "athenaeum at tampabay.rr.com" }, "date": "2003-08-08T07:28:05+00:00", "subject": "Re: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ashley Crill pointed out (regarding why Sev needs to retain a book after he\n[apparently] read it):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Severian mentions at one point in Claw that he has never read the entire\nbook. Perhaps he never finishes the thing during his journey." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Good point. Also Severian mentions that while he never forgets anything he\ndoesn't always have instant recall. Therefore it might be faster (and\neasier) for him to go back to the original source rather than trying to\nsearch through his memory in order to bring up a particular passage.\n\nIt's all a crock though in my opinion. At least in regards to him having a\nperfect memory. Perhaps he is trying to deceive us or just himself. Who\nknows. But of course no one can truly claim with any certainty to having\nsuch a memory. Not unless somehow everything in one's life has been recorded\nand can therefore be played back in order to determine the accuracy of that\nclaim. Otherwise how would you know? I mean even if you could remember\nverbatim what you read in some book and can verify it by going back to that\nbook and checking...still, that doesn't mean that your other memories will\nalso be 100% accurate (i.e., you might have a better memory for what you\nread as opposed to what you heard or what you saw...or you might even\nunconsciously replace certain true memories, for whatever reason, with false\nones).\n\nThen again does he ever say he has a perfect memory or just that he never\nforgets?* If only the latter then maybe he means it not so much in that he\nhas a photographic type of memory but rather that he can simply recall, say,\nwhat he had for lunch five years, three months, and two days ago (roast beef\nand peas) on a very uneventful day. Perhaps not how many peas there were or\nhow many bites it took to finish the roast beef, but rather just that he\ndidn't forget about having had that meal and what it generally consisted of.\nTo most of us, i'd wager, we'd consider that amazing and that therefore he\nwas well justified, at least in some sense, in claiming he never forgets.\nEspecially since most of us can't recall what we had during an ordinary\nlunch on an ordinary day a mere 20 days ago (or even whether we had lunch\nthat day or not, if we're prone to skipping them once in a while). Memories\nlike that are soon \"lost in the mist\" for us but maybe they're still there\nfor Severian, though maybe not down to the very last detail. That would\nexplain his lapses at times and also why he might feel the need to carry\nbooks around with him that he's already read.\n\n\nMooncalf\n\n*lol, i was just thinking how great it'd be if someone on this list had a\nperfect memory and we could turn to that person with our many inquiries of\nthis sort" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Don Palumbo", "address": "enpalumb at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2003-08-08T16:40:09+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\nMantis,\n\nThanks!\n\n--Don Palumbo" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 09:41 AM 8/7/03 -0700, you wrote:\nDon Palumbo wrote: \nAn easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "THE BOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? \nDoes Severian still have it by the time he returns to Nessus as Autarch,\nor does he lose it sometime after he reads the \"Tale of a Boy Called\nFrog\" to little Severian, perhaps around Lake Diuturna, where both\nTerminus Est and the Claw are destroyed? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Citadel, chapter 34: Severian still has it when he returns to the\nCitadel; he intends to keep it, and hopes that the sight of him carrying\nit will inspire more reading. \n\n=mantis= \n\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/ To unsubscribe:\nsend \"unsubscribe\" to urth-request at urth.net\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Don Palumbo", "address": "enpalumb at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2003-08-08T16:47:35+00:00", "subject": "Re: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Teflon93\n\nObviously, he hasn't found the time to read it all yet, at that point.\n\n--Don Palumbo" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 03:09 PM 8/7/03 -0400, you wrote:\nThe larger question is why Severian needs a book at all when he's got a \nphotographic memory. One reading should be sufficient.\n\nTeflon93" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: Michael Andre-Driussi \nDate: 2003/08/07 Thu PM 12:41:59 EDT\nTo: urth at urth.net\nSubject: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY\n\nDon Palumbo wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "An easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE\nBOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? Does\nSeverian still have it by the time he returns to Nessus as Autarch, or\ndoes he lose it sometime after he reads the \"Tale of a Boy Called Frog\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "to little Severian, perhaps around Lake Diuturna, where both\nTerminus Est and the Claw are destroyed?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Citadel, chapter 34: Severian still has it when he returns to the\nCitadel; he intends to keep it, and hopes that the sight of him\ncarrying it will inspire more reading.\n\n\n=mantis=\n\n\n\n--" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--" } ] } ] }