Subject: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY

From: Don Palumbo <enpalumb at earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 17:46:55 +0000

<html>
An easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE
BOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? 
Does Severian still have it by the time he returns to Nessus as Autarch,
or does he lose it sometime after he reads the "Tale of a Boy Called
Frog" to little Severian, perhaps around Lake Diuturna, where both
Terminus Est and the Claw are destroyed?

--Don Palumbo</html>

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From: William Ansley <wansley at warwick.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 15:52:08 +0000

At 10:46 AM 8/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>An easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE BOOK 
>OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? [...]

Don,

I don't remember.

However, with Wolfe, especially on this discussion list, there may be easy 
questions, but there are no easy answers. <G>

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From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 16:41:59 +0000

> An easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of THE
BOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun?  Does
Severian still have it by the time he returns to Nessus as Autarch, or
does he lose it sometime after he reads the "Tale of a Boy Called Frog"
to little Severian, perhaps around Lake Diuturna, where both
<italic>Terminus Est</italic> and the Claw are destroyed?

Citadel, chapter 34: Severian still has it when he returns to the
Citadel; he intends to keep it, and hopes that the sight of him
carrying it will inspire more reading.

=mantis=

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From: teflon93 <teflon93 at cox.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:09:28 +0000

The larger question is why Severian needs a book at all when he's got a photographic memory.  One reading should be sufficient.
 
Teflon93
> 
> From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com>
> Date: 2003/08/07 Thu PM 12:41:59 EDT
> To: urth at urth.net
> Subject: Re: (urth) What becomes of THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY
> 
> Don Palumbo wrote:
> 
> 

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From: Chris <rasputin_ at hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:42:07 +0000

I believe that Severian says enough to indicate that he feels much the way 
Wolfe does on the subject of books, and it's a feeling I share. The idea of 
keeping a special book that you already know by heart doesn't seem strange 
to me. Opening the physical book and re-reading the pages, no matter how 
well you remember them, is a pleasure rather than a practical concern.

Civet

>The larger question is why Severian needs a book at all when he's got a 
>photographic memory.  One reading should be sufficient.
>
>Teflon93
> >

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From: Andrew Bollen <abollen at internode.on.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 22:20:08 +0000

I know there was some discussion of this, sometime, but I can't find it on a quick search. Sev fetches four books for Thecla - Wonders, a book of devotions, something to do with heraldry, and another one. Hope I've got that right - anyway, I recall that three of the books were described in at least some detail, but one wasn't, which in Wolfe world usually means we're supposed to ask questions about it. Thoughts?

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From: Ashley Crill <ashley.crill at student.oc.edu>
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 05:46:07 +0000

Severian mentions at one point in Claw that he has never read the entire book. Perhaps he never finishes the thing during his journey.

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From: Mooncalf <athenaeum at tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:28:05 +0000

Ashley Crill pointed out (regarding why Sev needs to retain a book after he
[apparently] read it):
> Severian mentions at one point in Claw that he has never read the entire
book. Perhaps he never finishes the thing during his journey.

Good point. Also Severian mentions that while he never forgets anything he
doesn't always have instant recall. Therefore it might be faster (and
easier) for him to go back to the original source rather than trying to
search through his memory in order to bring up a particular passage.

It's all a crock though in my opinion. At least in regards to him having a
perfect memory. Perhaps he is trying to deceive us or just himself. Who
knows. But of course no one can truly claim with any certainty to having
such a memory. Not unless somehow everything in one's life has been recorded
and can therefore be played back in order to determine the accuracy of that
claim. Otherwise how would you know? I mean even if you could remember
verbatim what you read in some book and can verify it by going back to that
book and checking...still,  that doesn't mean that your other memories will
also be 100% accurate (i.e., you might have a better memory for what you
read as opposed to what you heard or what you saw...or you might even
unconsciously replace certain true memories, for whatever reason, with false
ones).

Then again does he ever say he has a perfect memory or just that he never
forgets?* If only the latter then maybe he means it not so much in that he
has a photographic type of memory but rather that he can simply recall, say,
what he had for lunch five years, three months, and two days ago (roast beef
and peas) on a very uneventful day. Perhaps not how many peas there were or
how many bites it took to finish the roast beef, but rather just that he
didn't forget about having had that meal and what it generally consisted of.
To most of us, i'd wager, we'd consider that amazing and that therefore he
was well justified, at least in some sense, in claiming he never forgets.
Especially since most of us can't recall what we had during an ordinary
lunch on an ordinary day a mere 20 days ago (or even whether we had lunch
that day or not, if we're prone to skipping them once in a while). Memories
like that are soon "lost in the mist" for us but maybe they're still there
for Severian, though maybe not down to the very last detail. That would
explain his lapses at times and also why he might feel the need to carry
books around with him that he's already read.

Mooncalf

*lol, i was just thinking how great it'd be if someone on this list had a
perfect memory and we could turn to that person with our many inquiries of
this sort

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From: Don Palumbo <enpalumb at earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:40:09 +0000

<html>
Mantis,

Thanks!

--Don Palumbo

At 09:41 AM 8/7/03 -0700, you wrote:
Don Palumbo wrote: 

> An easy question, but can anyone remember what finally becomes of
THE BOOK OF THE WONDERS OF URTH AND SKY in the Book of the New Sun? 

Citadel, chapter 34: Severian still has it when he returns to the
Citadel; he intends to keep it, and hopes that the sight of him carrying
it will inspire more reading. 

=mantis= 

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From: Don Palumbo <enpalumb at earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:47:35 +0000

Teflon93

Obviously, he hasn't found the time to read it all yet, at that point.

--Don Palumbo

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