# Starcrosser vs hyperspaceship *The Urth list — 1 messages, 1 voices, 14 Aug 2003* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### teflon93 *14 Aug 2003, 14:39* I think we're missing something here. Tzadkiel wasn't a simple spaceship. It crossed the gap between universes, between Briah and Yesod. Whorl never left Briah, as I understand it. It simply traversed normal space between stars. If it had been capable of hyperspace, it no doubt not have been a generational starship. > From: Lisa Schaffer-Doggett > Date: 2003/08/14 Thu AM 01:11:51 EDT > To: urth at urth.net > Subject: Re: (urth) Two Ships > > > On Wednesday, August 13, 2003, at 08:42 AM, James Jordan wrote: >> I don't think your Whorl = OneShip hypothesis can stand close >> inspection, as Crush has pointed out. Thematically, however, there may >> be something Wolfe intended. The One Ship is related symbolically to >> the Church: seven sided, existing throughout all of time, moving >> between the heavens and the Briah-world. The Church-as-Ship is just >> WAY too common historically for us not to consider it, and Wolfe >> certainly positions the One Ship in such a way as to point to >> Church-symbolism. >> But that brings up Typhon's ship as a counterfeit, of course, >> housing false pastiche religions that he established as a way to >> control the people inside of it. Given that this is indeed the case, >> Wolfe may have loaded Whorl with "counterfeit equivalents" to the >> features of the One Ship, for thematic reasons. This might be worth >> exploring, building on the parallels you have mooted. > Don agrees. He finds this a most likely scenario, the Whorl as a > corruption of Tzadkiel's ship. Or perhaps a lesser imitation since he > is suspicious of the "holiness" of the Hiero's. > > > On Wednesday, August 13, 2003, at 08:04 AM, James Wynn wrote: >> The only way I can think to salvage this theory is to say that >> Severian's >> ship was *first* the Whorl, retrofitted over time to eventually become >> Severian's ship. In that case, the time-line problems disappear and >> all the >> problems in technology can be explained by the passage of time. This >> is a >> less elegant solution than you were looking for since it doesn't >> explain >> "the cargo". But IMO it resolves some nasty snarls. > Don doesn't think this is likely. However, Silk did leave for the > Whorl at the end of RttW and it went on it's merry way to who knows > where. Maybe it went to Yesod. If Silk is Typhon redeemed then this > makes an interesting circle. Hmmm. > > > -- ---