{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4163", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4163, "subject": "Typhon uber alles and the fleshing of the hero", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2003-08-16T03:12:18+00:00", "last": "2003-08-16T04:53:21+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lisa Schaffer-Doggett", "address": "harlekin at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2003-08-16T03:12:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Typhon uber alles and the fleshing of the hero", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi everyone,\n\nAndrew's post whipped me back to something that has been on my mind for \na while: Typhon's nature. It is pretty well established I think that \nhe is not a product of natural childbirth. He is, to get straight to \nthe point, the Nazi dreamboy, the ubermensch. Blond (blue eyed?) \ngenetically perfect, brilliant, and desirous of bringing Urth back to \nthe good old days of empire. Ruling from South America no less. \nTyphon is a fascist, the ultimate fascist. I think his story is told \nin The Tale of the Student and His Son. A hero, created from \"dreams\" \nto defeat Abaia (the Naviscaput). He defeats this monster by allying \nwith its daughter (Scylla?) and returns home most likely to rule (like \nTheseus who by the way is one of Graves' seasonal sacred kings). This \nreading of the text satisfies me in two ways. It gives me ground for \nthe nagging instinctive feeling I've always had that Abaia does not \nexist (either through extinction or through the fact that he is really \nScylla) and it also fleshes out Typhon as a creation for a good purpose \ngone bad. It explains Cilinia's connection to Scylla, and (for me at \nleast) it helps explain Severian's connection to the sea creatures (for \nthose who don't know, I think Sev is Typhon's genetic son).\n\nBut even if no one buys my readings of the Wonders of Urth and Sky, it \nis still hard to avoid Typhon's parallels to the fascist ideal, and \nthis goes a long way toward explaining why the Whorl is so out of sync \nwith Urth culture. No mutant animals, no Aliens (he'd be furious about \nthe inhumi I think), the Chems (don't they have a symbolic tie to \nJudaism?) are little more than slaves and aren't supposed to leave the \nWhorl when colonization begins. A throwback to a better time with him \n(as Silk, I think, but Pas would work, I suppose) ruling over it all.\n\nComments are welcome,\n\nDon" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Geller", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2003-08-16T04:53:21+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Typhon uber alles and the fleshing of the hero", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wonderful, thoughtful post.\n\nJ.\n\n___" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 2003-08-15 at 20:12, Lisa Schaffer-Doggett wrote:\nHi everyone,\n\nAndrew's post whipped me back to something that has been on my mind for \na while: Typhon's nature. It is pretty well established I think that \nhe is not a product of natural childbirth. He is, to get straight to \nthe point, the Nazi dreamboy, the ubermensch. Blond (blue eyed?) \ngenetically perfect, brilliant, and desirous of bringing Urth back to \nthe good old days of empire. Ruling from South America no less. \nTyphon is a fascist, the ultimate fascist. I think his story is told \nin The Tale of the Student and His Son. A hero, created from \"dreams\" \nto defeat Abaia (the Naviscaput). He defeats this monster by allying \nwith its daughter (Scylla?) and returns home most likely to rule (like \nTheseus who by the way is one of Graves' seasonal sacred kings). This \nreading of the text satisfies me in two ways. It gives me ground for \nthe nagging instinctive feeling I've always had that Abaia does not \nexist (either through extinction or through the fact that he is really \nScylla) and it also fleshes out Typhon as a creation for a good purpose \ngone bad. It explains Cilinia's connection to Scylla, and (for me at \nleast) it helps explain Severian's connection to the sea creatures (for \nthose who don't know, I think Sev is Typhon's genetic son).\n\nBut even if no one buys my readings of the Wonders of Urth and Sky, it \nis still hard to avoid Typhon's parallels to the fascist ideal, and \nthis goes a long way toward explaining why the Whorl is so out of sync \nwith Urth culture. No mutant animals, no Aliens (he'd be furious about \nthe inhumi I think), the Chems (don't they have a symbolic tie to \nJudaism?) are little more than slaves and aren't supposed to leave the \nWhorl when colonization begins. A throwback to a better time with him \n(as Silk, I think, but Pas would work, I suppose) ruling over it all.\n\nComments are welcome,\n\nDon\n\n\n-- " } ] } ] }