{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4165", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4165, "subject": "One Ship: reply", "messages": 9, "voices": 7, "first": "2003-08-16T08:36:33+00:00", "last": "2003-08-19T07:01:00+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ashley Crill", "address": "ashley.crill at student.oc.edu" }, "date": "2003-08-16T08:36:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "U29tZXRoaW5nIHNjcmV3eSBpcyBnb2luZyBvbiB3aXRoIG15IGVtYWlsLiBGaXJzdCBpdCBzZW5k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\nc2gNCg==" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lisa Schaffer-Doggett", "address": "harlekin at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2003-08-16T09:03:35+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Saturday, August 16, 2003, at 01:36 AM, Ashley Crill wrote:\n\n\nAnyway, I didn't intend the 'One Ship' idea to be particularly \nconvincing. Its one of those fond oddball ideas that would be almost \nimpossible to prove correct or incorrect. I also didn't take the \nCaptain's statement about one ship as literal, though I didn't make \nthat clear in my original message. The Captain seems to be speaking in \nsome sort of poetical sense concerning the ideal of 'shiphood'. The \nstrongest suggestion of this whole theory seems to be the fact that \nGunnie has no idea what Cargo the Ship carries. She indicates that the \nCrew doesn't have access to the cargo holds at all, yet such holds \nmust be unimaginably huge." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One point in favor. :)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-I agree with the the symbolic idea of the Ship as the Church. Its \nvery plain. I might point out, however, that the Whorl carries the \nsame symbology, only its 'heavenly destination' is Blue/Green rather \nthan Yesod." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is correct but it's a corrupt symbolism." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-When Silk and the others saw the Whorl from outside, it simply \nappeared as a bright spot in the Sky. Tzadkiel's ship would appear the \nsame, depending on its distance from Blue/Green." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Neutral point. : /" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-There is no evidence of genetically engineered animals (destrier's \netc) existing on Tzadkiels's ship, only the apported animals which are \nconfined to the crew's zoo. Genetically engineered animals could have \nbeen introduced to Urth by the Hierodules after the launching of the \nShip." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The BotNS has considerable evidence that genetically engineered animals \npredate Typhon's rule. In addition there's the smilodon in UotNS when \nSeverian is imprisoned by Typhon. One point against. :(" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-Its true that Jonas and Sidero differ in ways from the Chems of the \nWhorl, but there are a variety of Chems that are constructed \ndifferently and serve different purposes. Contrast Maytera Marble with \na Talos." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Second point slightly in favor. :)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-Why do you believe the Whorl travels slower than the speed of light? \nI don't see this indicated anywhere. Arguments about the date when the \nWhorl was launched and when Typhon reigned don't apply if the Whorl \ntravels as fast as Tzadkiel's ship." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm not qualified to debate this but I think the general consensus is \nthat the Whorl was a sub light speed ship. But I personally think it \nsomehow attained light speed or greater at some point. Still, a major \nsecond point against. :(" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-The Chrasmologic Writings contain French and Latin because, A: Its a \nreligious writing. B: It was written and the Whorl was launched far \nbefore Severian's time. Also, Latin is extant in Severian's day, along \nwith Greek and Spanish." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It certainly exists in the Library." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "-Chems wouldn't be found on Urth at all if they were invented on board \nthe Ship. Reference Sidero's claims concerning this. Jonas was an \nexception, and he clearly came from the Ship rather than Urth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There were many robots on Urth according to the story in the Wonders of \nUrth and Sky. They rounded us up and stuck us in the Matrix until John \nConnor came along and saved us." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2003-08-16T14:53:49+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At 04:03 AM 8/16/2003, Don replied to:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Saturday, August 16, 2003, at 01:36 AM, Ashley Crill wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Anyway, I didn't intend the 'One Ship' idea to be particularly \nconvincing. Its one of those fond oddball ideas that would be almost \nimpossible to prove correct or incorrect. I also didn't take the \nCaptain's statement about one ship as literal, though I didn't make that \nclear in my original message. The Captain seems to be speaking in some \nsort of poetical sense concerning the ideal of 'shiphood'. The strongest \nsuggestion of this whole theory seems to be the fact that Gunnie has no \nidea what Cargo the Ship carries. She indicates that the Crew doesn't \nhave access to the cargo holds at all, yet such holds must be \nunimaginably huge." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "One point in favor. :)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-I agree with the the symbolic idea of the Ship as the Church. Its very \nplain. I might point out, however, that the Whorl carries the same \nsymbology, only its 'heavenly destination' is Blue/Green rather than Yesod." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "This is correct but it's a corrupt symbolism." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " I think this might even be \"two points in favor of parallelism.\" \nSure Tzadkiel's ship is the only one of its kind, though archetypally \nrelated to all other ships. And what can the Cargo be but \"souls being \ncarried to heaven\" in some SF sense, within the construct of the epic.\n Satan is God's ape, said Luther, and doubtless many before and \nafter him. Typhon is the Pancreator's ape. His ship also carries souls to \nhis future hell, where he will somehow rule (as Pas, or as a revived \nTyphon, depending on where you think the Whorl is going).\n Tzadkiel's Ship is the archetype. Whorl is one of countless \nectypes, and in this case a wicked ectype, a slave ship." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-The Chrasmologic Writings contain French and Latin because, A: Its a \nreligious writing. B: It was written and the Whorl was launched far \nbefore Severian's time. Also, Latin is extant in Severian's day, along \nwith Greek and Spanish." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It certainly exists in the Library." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Are these languages extant? Don't forget Wolfe's ur-note at the \nvery beginning of the whole cycle, that he has translated Severian's \nmanuscript in ways that 20th century readers can identify with. The \nappearance of Latin, French, Spanish, Arabic, etc. need mean no more than \nthat Wolfe has assigned these languages to correspond to various languages \nof the far \"future\" (in whatever sense Urth is \"future\" to us). I'm not \nsure we can make anything out of the appearance of these languages in these \nbooks. All three of these epics are books that Wolfe has graciously \ntranslated for us.\n\nNutria" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "2003-08-16T17:53:24+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Ashley Crill wrote:\n-Its true that Jonas and Sidero differ in ways from the Chems of the\nWhorl, but there are a variety of Chems that are constructed differently and\nserve different purposes. Contrast Maytera Marble with a Talos.<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I assume that you meant a \"Talus\", not Dr. Talos. First of all, a talus is\nnot a chem. A chem operates on nuclear power; a talus on fish oil. (EXODUS,\n53) Second, taluses were made on the _Whorl_; chems were made on Urth.\n(ibid.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-Chems wouldn't be found on Urth at all if they were invented on board the\nShip. Reference Sidero's claims concerning this.<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "See above. Also, Hammerstone mentioned to Silk that chems were being\nstockpiled \"for maybe twenty years\" on Urth before being placed aboard the\n_Whorl_. (LAKE, ch. 9)\n\n-Roy" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2003-08-18T08:58:11+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 16/08/2003 09:36:33 \"Ashley Crill\" wrote:\n-The Chrasmologic Writings contain French and Latin because, A: Its a \nreligious \nwriting. B: It was written and the Whorl was launched far before \nSeverian's \ntime. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That I can go with easily enough if I had to." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, Latin is extant in Severian's day, along with Greek and Spanish." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nope. An ancient language (epitomized by the inscriptions in the Atrium \nof Time) presented to us as Latin not because it is Latin but because it \nbears a similar relationship to Severian's tongue as Latin does to ours.\n\nThere is a general assumption that writing slows the change of language \nand the more widespread literacy, the larger the published corpus and the \nmore durable and disparate the means of recording the slower changes will \nbe.\n\nYet it is actually rather hard to demonstrate that this is in fact the \ncase.\n\nTake as an example Hindustani. A language formed over half a millennium \nfrom the Sanskrit rooted languages of the mid western Deccan and the \nPersian of the Muhguls.\n\nHindustani is grammatically indistinguishable from Urdu and Hindi. \nTechnically all three are the same language. Or were.\n\nBut starting in the late c19 and formalized at the beginning of the c20 \nHindustani was divided. Urdu re-acquired words of Persian origin while \nde-emphasizing Sanskrit based vocabulary. Hindi delved into Sanskrit \nadopting words to supplant Persian vocabulary.\n\nOne single century since this was formalized a grammatically identical, \nlexically identical language has been split to the point where spoken Urdu \n(eg from TV and radio broadcasts) has only 60 percent comprehension for \nHindi speakers and Hindi - made more obscure by the flowery \ncircumlocutions of classical Sanskrit - is only 40 percent comprehensible \nto Urdu speakers.\n\nShould this rate of change persist the two languages are likely to be \nmutually incomprehensible within another 100 years. More divergent than \nclassical and modern Greek. English is not immune, 400 year old \nShakespeare needs occasional footnotes; 600 year old Chaucer needs entire \nexplicative texts; American English and British English differ in \nlexicography and usage sufficiently to require a choice between them when \ninstalling a computer! French has hallowed institutions dedicated to \npreserving the immutability of the language yet Rabelais can be as obscure \nas Shakespeare and Chretien do Troyes needs translating. Castillian and \nAmerican Spanish. Arabic in variations from Morroco to Syria.\n\nConsider then the span of time between ourselves and Severian. Consider \nalso the upheavals that are alluded to in the history. The likelihood is \nthat if Greek, Latin, French, Spanish English or any other current \nlanguage \"existed\" it would be as archeological artefacts as obscure and \nincomprehensible as Minoan / Archaean Linear A and Linear B.\n\nMatthew" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Buice", "address": "mabuice at uchicago.edu" }, "date": "2003-08-18T15:27:38+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Monday, August 18, 2003, at 03:58 AM, \nmatthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk wrote:\nAmerican English and British English differ in\nlexicography and usage sufficiently to require a choice between them \nwhen\ninstalling a computer!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not to mention they had to \"translate\" that there Harry Potter for us \ncolonials queuing up to purchase it. :)\n\nMichael" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris", "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2003-08-18T18:33:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Excellent points.\n\nAnother possibility that occurs to me is that Typhon might have actually \nrevived those languages (presumably from some ancient archive or lexicon) \nspecifically for the people on the Whorl. We do know that he fiddled with \ntheir heads/memories.\n\nTwo reasons I can think of for this, though I'm sure there could be others. \nOne is that he revived them because the structure of whatever language they \nuse in his day doesn't lend itself well to the kind of archaic social \ncontrols he's putting in place (sort of the reverse of the direction Orwell \nanticipated). This isn't out of the realm of possibility but seems kind of \nhokey to me, and based on what Wolfe had to say about the Ascian language, I \ndon't think he bought into the theory that would justify that.\n\nThe second reason would be practical - by making it so that the \"cargo\" \ncould no longer read or speak the current tongue, he makes it more difficult \nfor them to subvert the mission if they should ever gain access to controls, \ninstruments, or - Pas forbid - an instruction manual." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That I can go with easily enough if I had to." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Also, Latin is extant in Severian's day, along with Greek and Spanish." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Nope. An ancient language (epitomized by the inscriptions in the Atrium\nof Time) presented to us as Latin not because it is Latin but because it\nbears a similar relationship to Severian's tongue as Latin does to ours.\n\nThere is a general assumption that writing slows the change of language\nand the more widespread literacy, the larger the published corpus and the\nmore durable and disparate the means of recording the slower changes will\nbe.\n\nYet it is actually rather hard to demonstrate that this is in fact the\ncase.\n\nTake as an example Hindustani. A language formed over half a millennium\nfrom the Sanskrit rooted languages of the mid western Deccan and the\nPersian of the Muhguls.\n\nHindustani is grammatically indistinguishable from Urdu and Hindi.\nTechnically all three are the same language. Or were.\n\nBut starting in the late c19 and formalized at the beginning of the c20\nHindustani was divided. Urdu re-acquired words of Persian origin while\nde-emphasizing Sanskrit based vocabulary. Hindi delved into Sanskrit\nadopting words to supplant Persian vocabulary.\n\nOne single century since this was formalized a grammatically identical,\nlexically identical language has been split to the point where spoken Urdu\n(eg from TV and radio broadcasts) has only 60 percent comprehension for\nHindi speakers and Hindi - made more obscure by the flowery\ncircumlocutions of classical Sanskrit - is only 40 percent comprehensible\nto Urdu speakers.\n\nShould this rate of change persist the two languages are likely to be\nmutually incomprehensible within another 100 years. More divergent than\nclassical and modern Greek. English is not immune, 400 year old\nShakespeare needs occasional footnotes; 600 year old Chaucer needs entire\nexplicative texts; American English and British English differ in\nlexicography and usage sufficiently to require a choice between them when\ninstalling a computer! French has hallowed institutions dedicated to\npreserving the immutability of the language yet Rabelais can be as obscure\nas Shakespeare and Chretien do Troyes needs translating. Castillian and\nAmerican Spanish. Arabic in variations from Morroco to Syria.\n\nConsider then the span of time between ourselves and Severian. Consider\nalso the upheavals that are alluded to in the history. The likelihood is\nthat if Greek, Latin, French, Spanish English or any other current\nlanguage \"existed\" it would be as archeological artefacts as obscure and\nincomprehensible as Minoan / Archaean Linear A and Linear B.\n\nMatthew\n\n\n\n--" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ashley Crill", "address": "ashley.crill at student.oc.edu" }, "date": "2003-08-19T05:41:36+00:00", "subject": "RE: (urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\tOn 16/08/2003 09:36:33 \"Ashley Crill\" wrote:\n-The Chrasmologic Writings contain French and Latin because, A: Its a\n\treligious\nwriting. B: It was written and the Whorl was launched far before\n\tSeverian's\ntime." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\t\n\tThat I can go with easily enough if I had to." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, Latin is extant in Severian's day, along with Greek and Spanish." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\t\n\tNope. An ancient language (epitomized by the inscriptions in the Atrium\n\tof Time) presented to us as Latin not because it is Latin but because it\n\tbears a similar relationship to Severian's tongue as Latin does to ours.\n\t\n\tI know that the inscription is not Latin, but Latin did exist in Severian's Urth. How? Ultan's library. The library was collected by Typhon out of writings from the past. If ancient Greek myths and a twenty-first century painting (the Astronaut) survived until Severian's day, then I'm sure that those ancient languages survived in written form in Ultan's library. Those languages do exist in Severian's day, even if noone speaks them. They are 'dead languages' that exist only in written form." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2003-08-19T07:01:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) One Ship: reply", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 18/08/2003 16:27:38 Michael Buice wrote:\nOn Monday, August 18, 2003, at 03:58 AM,\nmatthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "American English and British English differ in\nlexicography and usage sufficiently to require a choice between them\nwhen\ninstalling a computer!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Not to mention they had to \"translate\" that there Harry Potter for us\ncolonials queuing up to purchase it. :)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah. Someone thought you might not know what a philosopher was. Sheesh.\n\nMatthew" } ] } ] }