{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4195", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4195, "subject": "Severian the Unreliable", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2003-09-04T05:37:00+00:00", "last": "2003-09-04T16:45:06+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Thomas Bates", "address": "thomasgbates at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2003-09-04T05:37:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian the Unreliable", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Something to get discussion started again:\n\nI think an important passage to examine when trying to figure out\nwhat is going on with Sev's memory is this one from _The Claw of the\nConciliator_, Chapter 8:\n\n\"The truth is that I am one of those who are cursed with what is\ncalled perfect recollection. We cannot, as I have sometimes heard\nfoolishly alleged, remember everything. I cannot recall the ordering\nof the books on the shelves in the library of Master Ultan, for\nexample. But I can remember more than many would credit: the\nposition of each object on a table I walked past when I was a child,\nand even that I have recalled some scene to mind previously, and how\nthat remembered incident differed from the memory of it I have now.\"\n(II, VIII)\n\nSo, even he knows and admits that he can recall the same event\ndifferently. I don't think that he's lying about having perfect\nrecall. Maybe he's trying to reassure himself that his memory is\nworking properly when he mentions it so many times. We know that he\nfears that he's insane. I'll continue quoting:\n\n\"It was my power of recollection that made me the favorite pupil of\nMaster Palaemon, and so I suppose it can be blamed for the existence\nof this narrative, for if he had not favored me, I would not have\nbeen sent to Thrax bearing his sword.\"\n\nMaybe Palaemon, when he was trying to give advice, knew Severian\nwould just disregard it or misunderstand it, which seems to fit with\nhis naivete and gullibility.\n\n\"Some say this power is linked to weak judgment--of that I am no\njudge. But it has another danger, one I have encountered many times.\n When I cast my mind back into the past, as I am doing now and as I\ndid then when I sought to recall my dream, I remember it so well that\nI seem to move again in the bygone day, a day old-new, and unchanged\neach time I draw it to the surface of my mind, its eidolons as real\nas I. I can even now close my eyes and walk into Thecla's cell as I\ndid one winter evening; and soon my fingers will feel the heat of her\ngarment while the perfume of her person fills my nostrils like the\nperfume of lillies warmed before a fire. I lift her gown from her\nand embrace that ivory body, feeling her nipples pressed to my\nface...\"\n\nI wonder if Severian remembers the things he fantasizes or imagines\nand thinks they are real? Is it possible that he doesn't know the\ndifference between reality and fantasy?\n\nHe goes on, remembering the dream from when he slept in the bed with\nBaldanders.\n\n\"Again I bestride the mitred, leather-winged steed. Pelicans fly\nbelow us with stiffly formal strokes, and gulls wheel and keen.\"\n\nHere again, the recollection recounted here differs from the original\ndescription. No pelicans or gulls were mentioned before. Another\ndata point for the theory that he mentions his perfect memory almost\nevery time he describes something differently than he did before.\n\n\nThomas Bates" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at hotpop.com" }, "date": "2003-09-04T16:45:06+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Severian the Unreliable", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I recently took a look a \"Shadow and Claw\" at the bookstore. The\nRoche/Drotte confusion is there. Does anyone know whether the Mint/Marble\nconfusion is carried into \"Epiphany of the Long Sun\" from Exodus? I know\nthat one place it occurs is in the \"The Best Thieves in the Whorl\" chapter\nand the other occurs shortly before or after.\n\nThe quote I'm referring to occurs during Siyuf's conversation with Mint. My\ncopy of Exodus says:\n\n\"Siyuf looked back to Maytera Marble. \"You wish to tell me of the Charter of\nyour city, before this man have interrupt you. I find this of interest.\"\n\nDoes it say \"Maytera Mint\" in \"Epiphany\"?\n\n--- Crush\n\n\n----- Original Message ----- " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Thomas Bates\" \nTo: \nSent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:37 AM\nSubject: (urth) Severian the Unreliable\nSomething to get discussion started again:\n\nI think an important passage to examine when trying to figure out\nwhat is going on with Sev's memory is this one from _The Claw of the\nConciliator_, Chapter 8:\n\n\"The truth is that I am one of those who are cursed with what is\ncalled perfect recollection. We cannot, as I have sometimes heard\nfoolishly alleged, remember everything. I cannot recall the ordering\nof the books on the shelves in the library of Master Ultan, for\nexample. But I can remember more than many would credit: the\nposition of each object on a table I walked past when I was a child,\nand even that I have recalled some scene to mind previously, and how\nthat remembered incident differed from the memory of it I have now.\"\n(II, VIII)\n\nSo, even he knows and admits that he can recall the same event\ndifferently. I don't think that he's lying about having perfect\nrecall. Maybe he's trying to reassure himself that his memory is\nworking properly when he mentions it so many times. We know that he\nfears that he's insane. I'll continue quoting:\n\n\"It was my power of recollection that made me the favorite pupil of\nMaster Palaemon, and so I suppose it can be blamed for the existence\nof this narrative, for if he had not favored me, I would not have\nbeen sent to Thrax bearing his sword.\"\n\nMaybe Palaemon, when he was trying to give advice, knew Severian\nwould just disregard it or misunderstand it, which seems to fit with\nhis naivete and gullibility.\n\n\"Some say this power is linked to weak judgment--of that I am no\njudge. But it has another danger, one I have encountered many times.\n When I cast my mind back into the past, as I am doing now and as I\ndid then when I sought to recall my dream, I remember it so well that\nI seem to move again in the bygone day, a day old-new, and unchanged\neach time I draw it to the surface of my mind, its eidolons as real\nas I. I can even now close my eyes and walk into Thecla's cell as I\ndid one winter evening; and soon my fingers will feel the heat of her\ngarment while the perfume of her person fills my nostrils like the\nperfume of lillies warmed before a fire. I lift her gown from her\nand embrace that ivory body, feeling her nipples pressed to my\nface...\"\n\nI wonder if Severian remembers the things he fantasizes or imagines\nand thinks they are real? Is it possible that he doesn't know the\ndifference between reality and fantasy?\n\nHe goes on, remembering the dream from when he slept in the bed with\nBaldanders.\n\n\"Again I bestride the mitred, leather-winged steed. Pelicans fly\nbelow us with stiffly formal strokes, and gulls wheel and keen.\"\n\nHere again, the recollection recounted here differs from the original\ndescription. No pelicans or gulls were mentioned before. Another\ndata point for the theory that he mentions his perfect memory almost\nevery time he describes something differently than he did before.\n\n\nThomas Bates\n\n\n__________________________________\nDo you Yahoo!?\nYahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software\nhttp://sitebuilder.yahoo.com\n\n-- " } ] } ] }