{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4217",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4217,
    "subject": "DOORS revisited",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2003-09-10T23:28:58+00:00",
    "last": "2003-09-10T23:28:58+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0309-4096@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Chris",
        "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2003-09-10T23:28:58+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) DOORS revisited",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I just finished reading a lot of discussion that went on here around the \nbeginning of the year - I finished reading it for the first time a few weeks \nago - and I wanted to bring up a few thoughts and questions which I wasn't \nsure about. They may have been covered at some other point, but I haven't \nfound them.\n\nThe question that really hangs over my head at the moment has to do with the \nscene near the end, during the boxing match. When North pulls his guns, \nKlamm dives for cover and Lara shrinks back; Green remarks that he doesn't \nknow why they're doing that, since North's guns are clearly pointed at \n*him*. Everyone else in the book makes the assumption that North was gunning \nfor Klamm - the obvious political target. Here on the list I also see the \npossibility that North was attempting a shot at the goddess. But why does \nGreen believe North is trying to kill *him*? And is he correct in this \nbelief? The first way that I read it was that Klamm and Green were, in a \nway, the same person and that this was being reflected by a muddling of the \nnarrative from two points of view. However, this is completely a shot from \nthe hip and I'm not at all comfortable with it.\n\nA second, smaller question: is it generally agreed that Klamm is meant to be \nKafka himself? I seem to recall seeing it here but cannot find the post that \nmentions it. There is some indication of this, details of description, \nKlamm's gardening, and his identification with K., etc.\n\nAll in all I find myself nodding in agreement with Stone Ox and Mantis as \nfar as how they were breaking things down. I do disagree on the general \ntendency to see Fanny in a negative light. Ultimately I don't think even \nGreen thinks poorly of her, he admittedly likes her quite a bit. (The scene \nwhere he first meets her in the coffee shop was striking to me, and in a way \nforetold the ending.) He just doesn't like her *enough* - she's not the \ngoddess. A fairly perfect echo of the same kind of decisions he was making \nthat had him depressed and visiting the Mental Health Center in the first \nplace.\n\nIf there was a bait and switch going on, it was one being set up by Klamm. \nPerhaps not a deliberate trick, but Green is able to recognize that the path \nKlamm is laying out for him is the one that Klamm himself took at some point \nin the past. Klamm ultimately, for the sake of being close to his love even \na little, somehow made the shift from god/lover of the goddess to being her \nhigh priest. Green sees where this path leads, and rejects it to go for the \nwhole deal.\n\nSpeaking of priests, while doing a little research I found some interesting \ntidbits about the priesthood of the goddess. The most commonly known bit is \nthat they mutilated themselves in the manner of Attis, rejecting earthly \nlovers to devote themselves entirely to the goddess. Another item I found, \nhowever, about the priests of Attis (the \"Galli\") who were quite similar was \nthat they carried an \"image of the goddess\" with them (or around their \nnecks) - reminiscent of both the dolls and the \"mail\" charm Green carries \naround his neck (which if I recall correctly was vaguely human shaped).\n\nI'm right now following up on a vague memory I have of a myth in which \nAttis/Dionysus/etc. was both male and female (either in a figurative sense \nor literally hermaphroditic, I am not sure). If there turns out to be \nanything to it, then I'd make the tentative association that \"Adam K.\" would \nbe \"Adam Kadmon\", but that's just opening too large a can of worms for me to \ndeal with at the moment.\n\nAny help y'all could give me in puzzling this out would be most appreciated.\n\nRegards,\nCivet"
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\"Indeed it is hard to grasp why it hasn't already given birth... to its \nhero, that demon who will stage without scruple that horrifying play that \nreduces the whole age to laughter and to unconsciousness of the fact that it \nis laughing at itself.\" -- Soren Kierkegaard"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}