{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4227",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4227,
    "subject": "The assassin",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2004-09-21T21:34:20+00:00",
    "last": "2004-09-22T01:10:04+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<001a01c4a05d$6af106c0$183ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Roy C. Lackey",
        "address": "rclackey at stic.net"
      },
      "date": "2004-09-21T21:34:20+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) The assassin",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Pursuant to Jeffrey Lefstin's \"Valeria = Urth\" post of 9/4/04, a few related\nthoughts.\n\nI, for one, have long wondered about the identity of the \"assassin\" whose\nbody Severian stumbled over in the Secret House in Book V of the Urth Cycle.\nI don't recall much in the way of discussion about his identity but,\nconsidering where the episode occurs in the story -- just as Old Urth is in\nthe throes of its death agony -- he must be important, if only symbolically.\n\nI would suppose that the lack of speculation about his identity is due to\nthe fact that the text tells us almost nothing about him. In fact, the only\nthing that seems reasonably certain is that he is male. No physical\ndescription whatsoever is given -- not features, age, dress -- nothing.\nFurther, the few characteristics he is stated to have or supposed to have by\nour narrator are suspect. Those qualities are: that he was in fact an\nassassin, that he wielded a poisoned knife and that he was a \"swordsman of\nrenown\".\n\nSeverian had entered the Secret House after emerging from his cenotaph. He\nhad been surprised to discover that he was thought to be dead and wondered\nwho had caused the monument to be erected. He had no way of knowing at that\ntime that he had been gone for forty years; from his point of view he had\nbeen gone for \"fewer perhaps than a hundred days all told.\" Unconsciously,\nhowever, as he states in the first paragraph of chapter XLII, he had entered\nthe Secret House to \"learn who it was who sat the Phoenix Throne, and to\nreclaim it if I could.\"\n\nHis unconscious moods are significant, as he had been compelled to learn a\nfew chapters earlier. Severian had been seething with anger when he boarded\nthe _Alcyone_, and sulking about Burgundofara leaving his bed for Hadelin's.\nUnconsciously, he had caused the big storm that threatened to wreck the\nship, and which was calmed only by his conscious will. Immediately before\nthe storm struck, as related in the third paragraph of chapter XXXIV, and as\nyet unaware that he was not on Urth in his own time period, Severian had\nbeen brooding over the identity of the \"monarch\" he had heard mentioned,\n\"the suzerain who had replaced Father Inire\", as he then believed. He\nintended to reclaim the throne, thinking that the New Sun would not arrive\nin his lifetime. A few days later he left Typhon's era for the Brook\nMadregot, from which he tried to find his way back to his own time, then\nstepped from his cenotaph. He knew by then that the \"monarch\" had been a\nthousand years before his own time, but the fact of the cenotaph meant that\nsomeone else was sitting on his throne -- and he didn't like it!\n\nWhat I'm trying to say is that the identity of the dead man with the knife\nin the Secret House _before_ his revivification is not only unknowable, but\nunimportant. He had been dead \"for a year at least\". We don't know what was\ngoing on on Urth a year before the deluge. As Severian reveals in the same\nparagraph where he relates stumbling over the man, on any given night the\nSecret House might harbor a \"round dozen\" or even a \"hundred\" \"intrigues\".\nThe dead man's body was far from the throne room; why then should he have\nthe knife ready in his hand if his intended target was Valeria? He may have\nbeen on some personal vendetta or involved in some lovers' triangle. But the\nterm \"assassin\" implies a target of prominence, as distinguished from a\ncommon murderer. I believe that when Severian immediately termed the dead\nman an assassin he unconsciously influenced the man during the process of\nrevivification, in effect turning him into an assassin.\n\nThere is precedence for this. The anonymous dead soldier who became known as\nMiles was also the product of an unconscious resurrection. The unwitting\nresurrections of both the soldier and the assassin are also uniquely related\nby the presence of flies attracting Severian's attention. That anonymous\nsoldier came to exhibit some of the essence of Jonas. I don't think I'm the\nfirst to suggest that the Jonas in Miles had been put there by Severian at\nthe time of revivification, because Jonas had been on his mind.\n\nAfter fleeing from the assassin Severian eventually made his way to the\nthrone room, where he discovered a much older Valeria holding forth. With\nflooding immanent, he picked her up and sought to escape via the Secret\nHouse. Baldanders' final words were to Severian: \" .. . [t]he rest do not\nmatter. Save yourself if you can.\" Severian \"nodded without thinking\", and\nwhen he commanded the door to open the assassin entered and struck. The\nassassin did not seem concerned with the person of Valeria in particular,\nbut with _whoever_ wore the crown. There are no renowned swordsmen in the\nUrth Cycle. That Valeria's thin body proved to be such a poor shield is more\ntestament to Severian's character than to the assassin's skills with a\nblade. Valeria died with Urth, and there was no attempt to bring her back,\nconsciously or otherwise, even though Severian was then at the height of his\ngod-like powers, which is why he reflected, shortly after boarding the raft,\non \"Valeria rotting underwater\".\n\nThe sentiment he expressed a few pages later that Valeria \"somewhere\nsurvived\" the flood does not mean that she survived the thrust of the\npoisoned blade; she didn't, as the above makes clear. She lived on only in\nSeverian's memory.\n\n-Roy"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<BAY8-F112Wum8u4xIt10004274d@hotmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Chris",
        "address": "rasputin_ at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2004-09-22T01:10:04+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) The assassin",
      "in_reply_to": "<001a01c4a05d$6af106c0$183ec6d8@rclackey.stic.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I especially like the last two paragraphs of this post - it also tends to \nreinforce the association of Valeria with old Urth, in that it duplicates \nthe \"severe\" necessity of the old order to perish in the creation of the \nnew.\n\nI do think that the assassin isn't so easily attributable to Severian's \nimagination as all that, though I can see the argument for it. An assassin, \neven far from the throne room, could have very good reasons for having a \nweapon drawn. The House Absolute is a dangerous place, what with white \nwolves roaming and such. Then again I see the Miles incident as very open to \nquestion as well."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Pursuant to Jeffrey Lefstin's \"Valeria = Urth\" post of 9/4/04, a few \nrelated\nthoughts.\n\nI, for one, have long wondered about the identity of the \"assassin\" whose\nbody Severian stumbled over in the Secret House in Book V of the Urth \nCycle.\nI don't recall much in the way of discussion about his identity but,\nconsidering where the episode occurs in the story -- just as Old Urth is in\nthe throes of its death agony -- he must be important, if only \nsymbolically.\n\nI would suppose that the lack of speculation about his identity is due to\nthe fact that the text tells us almost nothing about him. In fact, the only\nthing that seems reasonably certain is that he is male. No physical\ndescription whatsoever is given -- not features, age, dress -- nothing.\nFurther, the few characteristics he is stated to have or supposed to have \nby\nour narrator are suspect. Those qualities are: that he was in fact an\nassassin, that he wielded a poisoned knife and that he was a \"swordsman of\nrenown\".\n\nSeverian had entered the Secret House after emerging from his cenotaph. He\nhad been surprised to discover that he was thought to be dead and wondered\nwho had caused the monument to be erected. He had no way of knowing at that\ntime that he had been gone for forty years; from his point of view he had\nbeen gone for \"fewer perhaps than a hundred days all told.\" Unconsciously,\nhowever, as he states in the first paragraph of chapter XLII, he had \nentered\nthe Secret House to \"learn who it was who sat the Phoenix Throne, and to\nreclaim it if I could.\"\n\nHis unconscious moods are significant, as he had been compelled to learn a\nfew chapters earlier. Severian had been seething with anger when he boarded\nthe _Alcyone_, and sulking about Burgundofara leaving his bed for \nHadelin's.\nUnconsciously, he had caused the big storm that threatened to wreck the\nship, and which was calmed only by his conscious will. Immediately before\nthe storm struck, as related in the third paragraph of chapter XXXIV, and \nas\nyet unaware that he was not on Urth in his own time period, Severian had\nbeen brooding over the identity of the \"monarch\" he had heard mentioned,\n\"the suzerain who had replaced Father Inire\", as he then believed. He\nintended to reclaim the throne, thinking that the New Sun would not arrive\nin his lifetime. A few days later he left Typhon's era for the Brook\nMadregot, from which he tried to find his way back to his own time, then\nstepped from his cenotaph. He knew by then that the \"monarch\" had been a\nthousand years before his own time, but the fact of the cenotaph meant that\nsomeone else was sitting on his throne -- and he didn't like it!\n\nWhat I'm trying to say is that the identity of the dead man with the knife\nin the Secret House _before_ his revivification is not only unknowable, but\nunimportant. He had been dead \"for a year at least\". We don't know what was\ngoing on on Urth a year before the deluge. As Severian reveals in the same\nparagraph where he relates stumbling over the man, on any given night the\nSecret House might harbor a \"round dozen\" or even a \"hundred\" \"intrigues\".\nThe dead man's body was far from the throne room; why then should he have\nthe knife ready in his hand if his intended target was Valeria? He may have\nbeen on some personal vendetta or involved in some lovers' triangle. But \nthe\nterm \"assassin\" implies a target of prominence, as distinguished from a\ncommon murderer. I believe that when Severian immediately termed the dead\nman an assassin he unconsciously influenced the man during the process of\nrevivification, in effect turning him into an assassin.\n\nThere is precedence for this. The anonymous dead soldier who became known \nas\nMiles was also the product of an unconscious resurrection. The unwitting\nresurrections of both the soldier and the assassin are also uniquely \nrelated\nby the presence of flies attracting Severian's attention. That anonymous\nsoldier came to exhibit some of the essence of Jonas. I don't think I'm the\nfirst to suggest that the Jonas in Miles had been put there by Severian at\nthe time of revivification, because Jonas had been on his mind.\n\nAfter fleeing from the assassin Severian eventually made his way to the\nthrone room, where he discovered a much older Valeria holding forth. With\nflooding immanent, he picked her up and sought to escape via the Secret\nHouse. Baldanders' final words were to Severian: \" .. . [t]he rest do not\nmatter. Save yourself if you can.\" Severian \"nodded without thinking\", and\nwhen he commanded the door to open the assassin entered and struck. The\nassassin did not seem concerned with the person of Valeria in particular,\nbut with _whoever_ wore the crown. There are no renowned swordsmen in the\nUrth Cycle. That Valeria's thin body proved to be such a poor shield is \nmore\ntestament to Severian's character than to the assassin's skills with a\nblade. Valeria died with Urth, and there was no attempt to bring her back,\nconsciously or otherwise, even though Severian was then at the height of \nhis\ngod-like powers, which is why he reflected, shortly after boarding the \nraft,\non \"Valeria rotting underwater\".\n\nThe sentiment he expressed a few pages later that Valeria \"somewhere\nsurvived\" the flood does not mean that she survived the thrust of the\npoisoned blade; she didn't, as the above makes clear. She lived on only in\nSeverian's memory.\n\n-Roy\n\n_______________________________________________"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}