Parka

Alice K. Turner03 Jan 2005, 13:28

Ormsby= Pendragon, bravo Dan'l. Would not have occurred to me. As to Parka, she is the "white spinner of destiny," and she operates on a level above the Overcym because they too are subject to her. Under a variety of names, she was worshiped over the entire European continent from Ireland to Slovakia and unlike the Norns (who were "disir," or second-tier immortals, along with the Valkyries etc.) she operated alone. If you want to google her, try Berchta or Perchta or Holda. Here's a fairly good one on Holda: http://www.thorshof.org/holda.htm You can probably do better. Just to save you time, Forcetti= Forseti, a son of Baldur. The town is named after him, like Washington. In both cases (as in others), Wolfe is simply being cute with spelling. -a-

James Wynn03 Jan 2005, 13:55

↳ in reply to Alice K. Turner

3 quoted lines

Under a variety of names, she was worshiped over the entire European continent from Ireland to Slovakia and unlike the Norns (who were "disir," or second -tier immortals, along with the Valkyries etc.) she operated alone.

Okay. but she does give a carved stick to Able at their first meeting and that, along with her Fate's spinning wheel, pretty definitely identifies her as a Norn (they carved a staff to denote a man's fate rather than spun a thread...and they only conversed with Odin. hmmm). All this is six and half a dozen, since Parca of childbirth was associated with the Fates and the Moria and the Gracae and the Furies and Keries all those other groups of three women that measured the souls of mankind. ~ Crush

Alice K. Turner06 Jan 2005, 11:53

↳ follows, by subject match James Wynn

So far as I know, Wolfe has said nothing about her. My assumption comes from her name (we know the names of the Norns--Skull, Urd and Verthandi), her description (hair and teeth), her powers, her elevation (Kleos) and her solo status. Here is what "Goddesses in World Mythology" (Ann, Imel) has to say about Berchta or Perchta: "'White Lady.' the spinner of destiny who wears a mantle of snow. She presides over plows, plants, spinners (whom she rewards for diligence and punches of carelessness), and the souls of unborn children. Her German counterparts are Holde and Holle. Like the Baba Yaga of Eastern Europe, she has been demoted to an ugly, cannibalistic ogre who kidnaps children. In Mecklenburg, she is called Frau Gude; in Holland her name is Vrou-elde; in Bavaria it is Berche; Berchtli in Switzerland; and in the Salzberg Mountain she is Perchta or Perchtel. See also Dame Wode, Erde. Alt: Fraue Berchta, Frau Berte, Berte, Berkta, Bertha, Bertie, Berte, Brechta, Eisenberta, Perchata, Perchet, Precht, Vrou-Elde, White Lady, Yrou-Elde." Citations go back to Bonnerjea in 1927, who is also referenced for the Norns, quite separately, as a type of disir and quite local compared to Berchta. -alga

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Has Wolfe truely said she is not a Norn, or are you inferring that from the text? If the former, I yied now. If the latter, then I'll answer why I insist on her being a Norn. She sits a a wheel spinning the Fates of men and gives a thread to Able. Am I really reaching so far to identify her with as the sum of the Moira, the Greek Fates? Able asks her if she is a fortuneteller and she answers that "some have thought so" or something like that. But this is story stewing in Norse mythology, so when she gives Able a carved stave, I say, "Ah ha! Wolfe is balling the Norns and the Fates within Parka. And then there's her name, Parka. Parca is the Roman goddess of childbirth who became the Parcae who were the (three) Roman goddesses of fate. They were eventually dimished into beneficial spirits who watched over sleeping infants (think of Able sleeping under her care after the Aelf brought him up). They were associated with the Greek Moira and therefore with the Norns. The "carved stick" of the Norns is usually referred to as a "stave". Of course what Parca gives to Able is his walking stick on which he had "carved some things" before he was abducted: a real "stave" or "staff". When he gets it, he realizes that his carvings, without his realizing it at the time, transformed it into a bow. For this reason I don't think all Norse mythology are localized within Skai. There's plenty of Norse mythological references in Mythgarthr and Aelfrice (including Disiri). And there is plenty of borrowing for other mythologies as well. Parka and Michael both are from Kleos. Yet perhaps there are Norns in Skai and Parka is above them since she is in some sense their "source." It is an interesting reach to identify Parca with Perchta, the "bright one", the Lord of the Hunt whom Jacob Grimm identified with Hulda and through her to Hel. I would never have made that leap, but seeing that you have done so I'm not inclined to disagree with you for a host of reasons. Most people would not see much point in naming such a person after the male Perchta, but I applaud your catch and agree with you. ~ Crush ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:25:26 -0500 From: "James Wynn" <thewynns at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: (FWD) Re: (urth) Why Garvaon killed Gilling

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