{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4285",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4285,
    "subject": "Parka",
    "messages": 3,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2005-01-03T13:28:07+00:00",
    "last": "2005-01-06T11:53:34+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<011501c4f1db$18598bb0$d27cae44@akt>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Alice K. Turner",
        "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com"
      },
      "date": "2005-01-03T13:28:07+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Parka",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Ormsby= Pendragon, bravo Dan'l. Would not have occurred to me.\n\nAs to Parka, she is the \"white spinner of destiny,\" and she operates on a \nlevel above the Overcym because they too are subject to her. Under a variety \nof names, she was worshiped over the entire European continent from Ireland \nto Slovakia and unlike the Norns (who were \"disir,\" or second-tier \nimmortals, along with the Valkyries etc.) she operated alone. If you want to \ngoogle her, try Berchta or Perchta or Holda. Here's a fairly good one on \nHolda: http://www.thorshof.org/holda.htm You can probably do better.\n\nJust to save you time, Forcetti= Forseti, a son of Baldur. The town is named \nafter him, like Washington. In both cases (as in others), Wolfe is simply \nbeing cute with spelling.\n\n-a- "
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<007c01c4f1de$fdc44a70$4c1e4b0a@vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Wynn",
        "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net"
      },
      "date": "2005-01-03T13:55:55+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Parka",
      "in_reply_to": "<011501c4f1db$18598bb0$d27cae44@akt>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Under a variety\nof names, she was worshiped over the entire European continent from\nIreland to Slovakia and unlike the Norns (who were \"disir,\" or second\n-tier immortals, along with the Valkyries etc.) she operated alone."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Okay. but she *does* give a carved stick to Able at their first meeting and\nthat, along with her Fate's spinning wheel, pretty definitely identifies her\nas a Norn (they carved a staff to denote a man's fate rather than spun a\nthread...and they only conversed with Odin. hmmm). All this is six and half\na dozen, since Parca of childbirth was associated with the Fates and the\nMoria and the Gracae and the Furies and Keries all those other groups of\nthree women that measured the souls of mankind.\n\n~ Crush"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<009901c4f429$64eff360$d27cae44@akt>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Alice K. Turner",
        "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com"
      },
      "date": "2005-01-06T11:53:34+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Parka",
      "in_reply_to": "<007c01c4f1de$fdc44a70$4c1e4b0a@vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "So far as I know, Wolfe has said nothing about her. My assumption comes from \nher name (we know the names of the Norns--Skull, Urd and Verthandi), her \ndescription (hair and teeth), her powers, her elevation (Kleos) and her solo \nstatus. Here is what \"Goddesses in World Mythology\" (Ann, Imel) has to say \nabout Berchta or Perchta: \"'White Lady.' the spinner of destiny who wears a \nmantle of snow. She presides over plows, plants, spinners (whom she rewards \nfor diligence and punches of carelessness), and the souls of unborn \nchildren. Her German counterparts are Holde and Holle. Like the Baba Yaga of \nEastern Europe, she has been demoted to an ugly, cannibalistic ogre who \nkidnaps children. In Mecklenburg, she is called Frau Gude; in Holland her \nname is Vrou-elde; in Bavaria it is Berche; Berchtli in Switzerland; and in \nthe Salzberg Mountain she is Perchta or Perchtel. See also Dame Wode, Erde. \nAlt: Fraue Berchta, Frau Berte, Berte, Berkta, Bertha, Bertie, Berte, \nBrechta, Eisenberta, Perchata, Perchet, Precht, Vrou-Elde, White Lady, \nYrou-Elde.\" Citations go back to Bonnerjea in 1927, who is also referenced \nfor the Norns, quite separately, as a type of disir and quite local compared \nto Berchta.\n\n-alga"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Has Wolfe truely said she is not a Norn, or are you inferring that from \nthe\ntext? If the former, I yied now. If the latter, then I'll answer why I\ninsist on her being a Norn. She sits a a wheel spinning the Fates of men \nand\ngives a thread to Able.  Am I really reaching so far to identify her with \nas\nthe sum of the Moira, the Greek Fates? Able asks her if she is a\nfortuneteller and she answers that \"some have thought so\" or something \nlike\nthat. But this is story stewing in Norse mythology, so when she gives Able \na\ncarved stave, I say, \"Ah ha! Wolfe is balling the Norns *and* the Fates\nwithin Parka.\n\nAnd then there's her name, Parka. Parca is the Roman goddess of childbirth\nwho became the Parcae who were the (three) Roman goddesses of fate. They\nwere eventually dimished into beneficial spirits who watched over sleeping\ninfants (think of Able sleeping under her care after the Aelf brought him\nup). They were associated with the Greek Moira and therefore with the \nNorns.\n\nThe \"carved stick\" of the Norns is usually referred to as a \"stave\". Of\ncourse what Parca gives to Able is his walking stick on which he had \n\"carved\nsome things\" before he was abducted: a real \"stave\" or \"staff\". When he \ngets\nit, he realizes that his carvings, without his realizing it at the time,\ntransformed it into a bow.\n\nFor this reason I don't think all Norse mythology are localized within \nSkai.\nThere's plenty of Norse mythological references in Mythgarthr and Aelfrice\n(including Disiri). And there is plenty of borrowing for other mythologies\nas well. Parka and Michael both are from Kleos. Yet perhaps there are \nNorns\nin Skai and Parka is above them since she is in some sense their \"source.\"\n\nIt is an interesting reach to identify Parca with Perchta, the \"bright \none\",\nthe Lord of the Hunt whom Jacob Grimm identified with Hulda and through \nher\nto Hel. I would never have made that leap, but seeing that you have done \nso\nI'm not inclined to disagree with you for a host of reasons. Most people\nwould not see much point in naming such a person after the male Perchta, \nbut\nI applaud your catch and agree with you.\n\n~ Crush\n\n\n\n------------------------------\n\nMessage: 7\nDate: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:25:26 -0500\nFrom: \"James Wynn\" <thewynns at earthlink.net>\nSubject: Re: (FWD) Re: (urth) Why Garvaon killed Gilling"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}