Subject: (urth) TWK questions and answers

From: James Wynn <thewynns at earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 06:05:56 +0000

>I rather liked Idnn as a character and believe her agreeing to marry King
>Gilling is every bit as noble, selfless and dutiful as anything Able, Svon
>or Toug do in their various undertakings as knights aspirant.

And that was Wolfe's point right? That honor and courage are more than just
carrying a weapon against overwhelming odds or protecting your reputation -- 
although that might be part of the duties of honor too. It is about giving
up what you would really want (including potentially a long life) for the
benefit of others. When Able refuses to carry a sword when he knows it will
go against him in being taken seriously as a knight, that is honor. When he
rebuffs sex with willing women for his love for Disiri, that is honor. And
when Idnn (although terrified) takes on the mantle of the duties of being
King Gilling's wife -- guarding his life and well-being when it would be
better for her if he died -- that is honor and that is why Valfather comes
to visit her.

>I just
>found it hard to buy the notion that a brief marriage, not known to
>be consummated, would be taken as conferring authority on a
>foreigner. And maybe I missed why the female Angrborn live apart,
>and why the males prefer human women.

Male and female giants live apart just as male and female elephants live
apart.

They accept her as her queen as a matter of honor.  Furthermore, I don't
think you can map human relations to the giants. The mothers don't love
their sons. In fact, they are presumably contemptible to them. The male
giants are attracted to human women because they ARE NOT giants.

>Any thoughts on why the blood of the Angrborn is full of parasites?   Aside
>from just making them seeem extra vile?

It is taken from the myth of the death of Ymir. Men were formed from the
maggots that formed on his corpse. So when Giants die their corpses are
covered with creepy-crawlies.

~ Crush

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From: stilskin <acronus at yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 06:22:12 +0000

Regarding the giants and giantesses, I wouldn't be
surprised if Wolfe was also thinking of the Ents and
the Entwives.  There are many reworkings of ideas from
LOTR in TWK.  Abel as a Gandalf/Aragorn figure is
another.

P

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From: Andy Robertson <andywrobertson at clara.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 08:28:55 +0000

> Male and female giants live apart just as male and female elephants live

Odd, this.  It is not from the Norse, unlike nearly very thing else in TWK. 

There are plenty of stories of cohabitation between the gods and the giants, 
and the giantesses are usually seen as sexually attractive to the gods: but 
the idea that the giants and giantesses are separate species does not exist 
in that culture-stream.   I don't know what its source is. 

> 
> It is taken from the myth of the death of Ymir. 

Ah, yes. 

  hartshorn 

.

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 09:22:53 +0000

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 16:28:48 +0000, Andy Robertson
> Odd, this.  It is not from the Norse, unlike nearly very thing else in TWK.

There are a number of Celtic and Mediterranean bits running around,
also, notably Kulilli, who's Babylonian.

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---

From: Nathan Spears <spearofsolomon at yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:12:32 +0000

> Male and female giants live apart just as male and female elephants live

I got the impression it was because the males felt emasculated by their women, who
are larger and stronger than they are, and perhaps because the giantesses don't want
them around.  Notice that Utgard is in the southern part of the kingdom of the
giants; for a species where colder is better, the northern land would be the most
desirable.

I also noted that Wolfe didn't go out of his way to paint the giantesses as inhuman
and grotesque the way he did the giants, and that Able refers to one as if she were
attractive; I wonder if they don't look vastly different from the giants as well.

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From: harlekin at earthlink.net <harlekin at earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:57:16 +0000

I think he is linking them thematically to the undines of Urth.  The giantesses' ancestors are the Giants of winter and old night, who GW makes clear are from deep space.
Don

		
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From: harlekin at earthlink.net <harlekin at earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 11:01:24 +0000

I think this also has a connection to Kulili.  She is a composite creature made from worms, and acording to Able's accounting of the creation of the worlds, the lower are made from the cast offs of the upper.
Don

~ Crush