# TWK questions and answers *The Urth list — 7 messages, 6 voices, 04 Jan 2005* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### James Wynn *04 Jan 2005, 06:05* > I rather liked Idnn as a character and believe her agreeing to marry King > Gilling is every bit as noble, selfless and dutiful as anything Able, Svon > or Toug do in their various undertakings as knights aspirant. And that was Wolfe's point right? That honor and courage are more than just carrying a weapon against overwhelming odds or protecting your reputation -- although that might be part of the duties of honor too. It is about giving up what you would really want (including potentially a long life) for the benefit of others. When Able refuses to carry a sword when he knows it will go against him in being taken seriously as a knight, that is honor. When he rebuffs sex with willing women for his love for Disiri, that is honor. And when Idnn (although terrified) takes on the mantle of the duties of being King Gilling's wife -- guarding his life and well-being when it would be better for her if he died -- that is honor and that is why Valfather comes to visit her. > I just > found it hard to buy the notion that a brief marriage, not known to > be consummated, would be taken as conferring authority on a > foreigner. And maybe I missed why the female Angrborn live apart, > and why the males prefer human women. Male and female giants live apart just as male and female elephants live apart. They accept her as her queen as a matter of honor. Furthermore, I don't think you can map human relations to the giants. The mothers don't love their sons. In fact, they are presumably contemptible to them. The male giants are attracted to human women because they ARE NOT giants. > Any thoughts on why the blood of the Angrborn is full of parasites? Aside > from just making them seeem extra vile? It is taken from the myth of the death of Ymir. Men were formed from the maggots that formed on his corpse. So when Giants die their corpses are covered with creepy-crawlies. ~ Crush --- ### stilskin *04 Jan 2005, 06:22 · in reply to James Wynn* Regarding the giants and giantesses, I wouldn't be surprised if Wolfe was also thinking of the Ents and the Entwives. There are many reworkings of ideas from LOTR in TWK. Abel as a Gandalf/Aragorn figure is another. P >> --- James Wynn wrote: >> I rather liked Idnn as a character and believe her >> agreeing to marry King >> Gilling is every bit as noble, selfless and dutiful >> as anything Able, Svon >> or Toug do in their various undertakings as knights >> aspirant. > And that was Wolfe's point right? That honor and > courage are more than just > carrying a weapon against overwhelming odds or > protecting your reputation -- > although that might be part of the duties of honor > too. It is about giving > up what you would really want (including potentially > a long life) for the > benefit of others. When Able refuses to carry a > sword when he knows it will > go against him in being taken seriously as a knight, > that is honor. When he > rebuffs sex with willing women for his love for > Disiri, that is honor. And > when Idnn (although terrified) takes on the mantle > of the duties of being > King Gilling's wife -- guarding his life and > well-being when it would be > better for her if he died -- that is honor and that > is why Valfather comes > to visit her. >> I just >> found it hard to buy the notion that a brief >> marriage, not known to >> be consummated, would be taken as conferring >> authority on a >> foreigner. And maybe I missed why the female >> Angrborn live apart, >> and why the males prefer human women. > Male and female giants live apart just as male and > female elephants live > apart. > > They accept her as her queen as a matter of honor. > Furthermore, I don't > think you can map human relations to the giants. The > mothers don't love > their sons. In fact, they are presumably > contemptible to them. The male > giants are attracted to human women because they ARE > NOT giants. >> Any thoughts on why the blood of the Angrborn is >> full of parasites? Aside >> from just making them seeem extra vile? > It is taken from the myth of the death of Ymir. Men > were formed from the > maggots that formed on his corpse. So when Giants > die their corpses are > covered with creepy-crawlies. > > ~ Crush > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Andy Robertson *04 Jan 2005, 08:28 · in reply to James Wynn* James Wynn writes: > Male and female giants live apart just as male and female elephants live > apart. Odd, this. It is not from the Norse, unlike nearly very thing else in TWK. There are plenty of stories of cohabitation between the gods and the giants, and the giantesses are usually seen as sexually attractive to the gods: but the idea that the giants and giantesses are separate species does not exist in that culture-stream. I don't know what its source is. > It is taken from the myth of the death of Ymir. Ah, yes. hartshorn . --- ### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes *04 Jan 2005, 09:22 · in reply to Andy Robertson* > On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 16:28:48 +0000, Andy Robertson > wrote: > James Wynn writes: >> Male and female giants live apart just as male and female elephants live >> apart. > Odd, this. It is not from the Norse, unlike nearly very thing else in TWK. There are a number of Celtic and Mediterranean bits running around, also, notably Kulilli, who's Babylonian. ``` www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer Freedom has no barcode. --J.G. Ballard ``` --- ### Nathan Spears *04 Jan 2005, 10:12 · in reply to James Wynn* >> I just >> found it hard to buy the notion that a brief marriage, not known to >> be consummated, would be taken as conferring authority on a >> foreigner. And maybe I missed why the female Angrborn live apart, >> and why the males prefer human women. > Male and female giants live apart just as male and female elephants live > apart. I got the impression it was because the males felt emasculated by their women, who are larger and stronger than they are, and perhaps because the giantesses don't want them around. Notice that Utgard is in the southern part of the kingdom of the giants; for a species where colder is better, the northern land would be the most desirable. I also noted that Wolfe didn't go out of his way to paint the giantesses as inhuman and grotesque the way he did the giants, and that Able refers to one as if she were attractive; I wonder if they don't look vastly different from the giants as well. --- ### harlekin at earthlink.net *04 Jan 2005, 10:57 · follows Nathan Spears* I think he is linking them thematically to the undines of Urth. The giantesses' ancestors are the Giants of winter and old night, who GW makes clear are from deep space. Don I also noted that Wolfe didn't go out of his way to paint the giantesses as inhuman and grotesque the way he did the giants, and that Able refers to one as if she were attractive; I wonder if they don't look vastly different from the giants as well. --- ### harlekin at earthlink.net *04 Jan 2005, 11:01 · follows harlekin at earthlink.net* I think this also has a connection to Kulili. She is a composite creature made from worms, and acording to Able's accounting of the creation of the worlds, the lower are made from the cast offs of the upper. Don > Any thoughts on why the blood of the Angrborn is full of parasites? Aside > from just making them seeem extra vile? It is taken from the myth of the death of Ymir. Men were formed from the maggots that formed on his corpse. So when Giants die their corpses are covered with creepy-crawlies. ~ Crush ---