{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4301",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4301,
    "subject": "urth-urth.net Digest, Vol 5, Issue 16",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2005-01-11T14:03:37+00:00",
    "last": "2005-01-11T15:01:50+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<93025411-641C-11D9-BCD9-000A95969716@stanfordalumni.org>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jeffrey Lefstin",
        "address": "jeff.lefstin at stanfordalumni.org"
      },
      "date": "2005-01-11T14:03:37+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re: urth-urth.net Digest, Vol 5, Issue 16",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I can't say I agree - I would have found it just as jarring if Silk had \nstarted spouting off about women's rights to control reproduction, or \nhow the government of Viron should provide for the poor or rein in the \nmerchant class.  Unless the story is a political allegory (and maybe \nnot even then) dropping blatantly late-20th-century political debates \ninto such a novel does little to improve it.\n\nJL"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Jan 11, 2005, at 12:09 PM, urth-urth.net-request at lists.urth.net \nwrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "I wouldn't go so far as to endorse this point of view whole-heartedly,\nbut I was struck by how jarring the paeans to supply-side economics \nand\nuniversal gun ownership were in Exodus from the Long Sun.  At the time\nthey seemed so clumsily inserted that I wasn't sure if they were \nsatire\nor GW's views.... Now I assume the latter?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "I didn't think they were clumsily inserted. I think they were jarring\nbecause the plurality of SciFi writers are politically liberal.\n\nThus, placing favorable views to gun-ownership and supply-side \neconomics in\nthe mouth of a very simpathic and (presented as) wise character might \nhave\ncaught you unaware if you did not previously know of Wolfe's \nconservative\npolitics.\n\n~ Crush"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<013301c4f831$8712f8f0$4c1e4b0a@vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Wynn",
        "address": "thewynns at earthlink.net"
      },
      "date": "2005-01-11T15:01:50+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Re: urth-urth.net Digest, Vol 5, Issue 16",
      "in_reply_to": "<93025411-641C-11D9-BCD9-000A95969716@stanfordalumni.org>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "I can't say I agree - I would have found it just as jarring if Silk had\nstarted spouting off about women's rights to control reproduction, or\nhow the government of Viron should provide for the poor or rein in the\nmerchant class.  Unless the story is a political allegory (and maybe\nnot even then) dropping blatantly late-20th-century political debates\ninto such a novel does little to improve it."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Well, I'm more forgiving of this sort of thing. Characters are people and\npeople have political opinions. It would be difficult to avoid touching any\ncurrent political controversy if a writer wanted to and I can't imagine why\none would try. I might not agree with the political and social POV of\nAtwood, Tiptree, or Morcock, but, well, they have each have one and that's\nwhat you get.\n\nIn \"Exodus\", the political discussion wasn't thrown in willy-nilly. Silk is\nresponsible for reforming society in a just manner. He does so in a manner\nthat the author thinks is just.  What else could happen? (Note that his\ndecision on disarming Viron runs parallel to the choices the Coalition made\nin Iraq what with letting each household keep and AK-47 <wincing as I\nanticipate the OT flames>)\n\nWolfe can be subtle too. I wonder if you even noticed that government of\nDorp that the Narrator overthrows in \"Return To The Whorl\" is a tyranny of\nthe Judiciary that he accuses if taking \"advantage of [the people's] good\nqualities, and so the judges had to go; if I had not removed them, the\npeople themselves in  few years\".  If that isn't an intentional contemporary\nconservative political prophecy for America, then I don't know what is.\n\n~ Crush"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}