{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4302",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4302,
    "subject": "Lepanto",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2005-01-11T14:16:56+00:00",
    "last": "2005-01-11T15:10:16+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<00c401c4f82b$3d580f80$d27cae44@akt>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Alice K. Turner",
        "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com"
      },
      "date": "2005-01-11T14:16:56+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Lepanto",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Andrew Bollen:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "I've never read Chesterton before, but his \"Lepanto\" (below) surely is\nhorrendously awful."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "To which vizcacha replied:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "I wouldn't say it's _that_ bad. Like Kipling, if you encounter it at a\ncertain age, it's quite thrilling. It also works better if you recite it \nout\nloud; the alliteration and meter are stirring. Or at least I remember \nthese\nimpressions from when I was a certain age. Check out _The Man Who Was\nThursday_, or a light dose of Father Brown if you want something by\nChesterton that you might enjoy more."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Oh, I agree completely. This kind of writing is completely out of fashion \nnow, but \"Lepanto\" is actually a fine example of robust Victorian jingoism, \nor, from Orwell's point of view, admiration for Catholic conquistadores. But \nyou really have to admire the nerve of:\n\nLove-light of Spain--hurrah!\nDeath-light of Africa!\nDon John of Austria\nIs riding to the sea.\n\nAt least when read aloud. Nobody mentioned, btw, what a splendid piece of \ninvective prose the Orwell excerpt is, so I will.\n\n-alga "
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<30183368273.20050112000933@poczta.fm>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Stanis³aw Bocian",
        "address": "sbocian at poczta.fm"
      },
      "date": "2005-01-11T15:10:16+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Lepanto",
      "in_reply_to": "<00c401c4f82b$3d580f80$d27cae44@akt>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Tuesday, January 11, 2005, 11:16:46 PM, Alice K. Turner wrote:\n\n\nAKT> Oh, I agree completely. This kind of writing is completely out of fashion \nAKT> now, but \"Lepanto\" is actually a fine example of robust Victorian jingoism, \nAKT> or, from Orwell's point of view, admiration for Catholic conquistadores. But \nAKT> you really have to admire the nerve of:\n\nAKT> Love-light of Spain--hurrah!\nAKT> Death-light of Africa!\nAKT> Don John of Austria\nAKT> Is riding to the sea.\n\n\nAKT> -alga \n\nI am sorry to disappoint you, but battle of Lepanto had nothing to do\nwith the conquiscadors, except that most Christian soldiers there were\nSpanish. It was a defensive battle against Turkey. If you think that\nEuropeans having a temerity to defend themselves against an Islamic\nbarbarous invasion constitutes robust Victorian jingoism, I can say\nnothing more.\n\nI use the word barbarous deliberately. When Famagusta surrendered to\nthe Turks, they made a drum of the skin of the commander.\n\n\n According to Encyclopedia Britannica\n\nLepanto, Battle of\n\n (Oct. 7, 1571), naval engagement between allied Christian forces and\n the Ottoman Turks during an Ottoman campaign to acquire the Venetian\n island of Cyprus. Seeking to drive Venice from the eastern\n Mediterranean, the forces of Sultan Selim II invaded Cyprus in 1570.\n The Venetians formed an alliance with Pope Pius V and Philip II of\n Spain (May 25, 1571). Philip sent his half brother, Don John of\n Austria, to command the allied forces. By the time the allies\n assembled at Messina, Sicily (Aug. 24, 1571), the Turks had captured\n Nicosia (Sept. 9, 1570), besieged Famagusta, and entered the\n Adriatic. Their fleet lay in the Gulf of Patras, near Lepanto\n (N?vpaktos), Greece. The allied fleet of more than 200 ships sailed\n for Corfu on September 15 and on October 7 advanced in four squadrons\n against the Ottoman fleet, commanded by Ali Pa a, Mu?ammad Saulak\n (governor of Alexandria), and Uluj Ali (dey of Algiers). After about\n four hours of fighting, the allies were victorious, capturing 117\n galleys and thousands of men. Of little practical value (Venice\n surrendered Cyprus to the Turks in 1573), the battle had a great\n impact on European morale and was the subject of paintings by Titian,\n Tintoretto, and Veronese."
        },
        {
          "kind": "sig",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "    Stanislaus Bocian"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}