{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4303", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4303, "subject": "urth-urth.net Digest, Vol 5, Issue 19", "messages": 1, "voices": 1, "first": "2005-01-11T21:00:15+00:00", "last": "2005-01-11T21:00:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<00e201c4f863$93655940$d27cae44@akt>", "from": { "name": "Alice K. Turner", "address": "aturner6 at nyc.rr.com" }, "date": "2005-01-11T21:00:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: urth-urth.net Digest, Vol 5, Issue 19", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Um, that was a joke? Referring to Spain in the quote? And to the Orwell \nreference? I know where Lepanto is/was. You forgot to point out that \nChesterton was not technically a Victorian writer either, which I also know, \nand was partly the point.\n\n-alga" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I am sorry to disappoint you, but battle of Lepanto had nothing to do\nwith the conquiscadors, except that most Christian soldiers there were\nSpanish. It was a defensive battle against Turkey. If you think that\nEuropeans having a temerity to defend themselves against an Islamic\nbarbarous invasion constitutes robust Victorian jingoism, I can say\nnothing more.\n\nI use the word barbarous deliberately. When Famagusta surrendered to\nthe Turks, they made a drum of the skin of the commander.\n\n\nAccording to Encyclopedia Britannica\n\nLepanto, Battle of\n\n(Oct. 7, 1571), naval engagement between allied Christian forces and\nthe Ottoman Turks during an Ottoman campaign to acquire the Venetian\nisland of Cyprus. Seeking to drive Venice from the eastern\nMediterranean, the forces of Sultan Selim II invaded Cyprus in 1570.\nThe Venetians formed an alliance with Pope Pius V and Philip II of\nSpain (May 25, 1571). Philip sent his half brother, Don John of\nAustria, to command the allied forces. By the time the allies\nassembled at Messina, Sicily (Aug. 24, 1571), the Turks had captured\nNicosia (Sept. 9, 1570), besieged Famagusta, and entered the\nAdriatic. Their fleet lay in the Gulf of Patras, near Lepanto\n(N?vpaktos), Greece. The allied fleet of more than 200 ships sailed\nfor Corfu on September 15 and on October 7 advanced in four squadrons\nagainst the Ottoman fleet, commanded by Ali Pa a, Mu?ammad Saulak\n(governor of Alexandria), and Uluj Ali (dey of Algiers). After about\nfour hours of fighting, the allies were victorious, capturing 117\ngalleys and thousands of men. Of little practical value (Venice\nsurrendered Cyprus to the Turks in 1573), the battle had a great\nimpact on European morale and was the subject of paintings by Titian,\nTintoretto, and Veronese.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n\n\n Stanislaus Bocian\n\n\n\n-- \nNo virus found in this outgoing message.\nChecked by AVG Anti-Virus.\nVersion: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 05-01-10\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nStartuj z INTERIA.PL!!! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1837\n\n\n\n------------------------------\n\nMessage: 7\nDate: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:24:13 +0000\nFrom: \"Chris\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) SciFi politics\nTo: thewynns at earthlink.net, urth-urth.net at lists.urth.net\nMessage-ID: \nContent-Type: text/plain; format=flowed\n\nI am undecided on the supply-side economics bit, but I did not think that\nthe gun-ownership bit was clumsily inserted either; it's quite to the \npoint\nand a real concern in the particular political situation Silk found \nhimself\nin. And ultimately it seemed to me like Silk's position on guns, at that\npoint, was largely a matter of political pragmatism rather than universal\nprinciple. To me, the issue there wasn't \"gun control\" but rather the\ndistribution of power to individuals in an unstable, revolutionary\natmosphere.\n\nI am not sure that Wolfe could even have realistically avoided the \nsubject." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I wouldn't go so far as to endorse this point of view whole-heartedly,\nbut I was struck by how jarring the paeans to supply-side economics and\nuniversal gun ownership were in Exodus from the Long Sun. At the time\nthey seemed so clumsily inserted that I wasn't sure if they were satire\nor GW's views.... Now I assume the latter?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I didn't think they were clumsily inserted. I think they were jarring\nbecause the plurality of SciFi writers are politically liberal.\n\nThus, placing favorable views to gun-ownership and supply-side economics \nin\nthe mouth of a very simpathic and (presented as) wise character might have\ncaught you unaware if you did not previously know of Wolfe's conservative\npolitics.\n\n~ Crush\n\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "------------------------------\n\nMessage: 8\nDate: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:33:11 -0500\nFrom: \"James Wynn\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) silver glass\nTo: \nMessage-ID: <014401c4f835$ea6be070$4c1e4b0a at vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"iso-8859-1\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Narrator or not) that Horn will succeed in taking Silk to Blue. He will\ntake\nSilk's body and all his memories (the Narrator makes several errors in\nmemory while on the Whorl that prove he still retains Silk's memories as\nwell as Horn's)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I more or less agree, but now that you've got my interest piqued can you\ngive an example? I don't remember seeing any occasions that made it drop\ndead certain to me that he had Silk's memories, but then it has been a\nlittle while." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Oh that's a fine thing. I can't remember a mistake at this moment but I\nremember NOTING them as I read RTTW. Also, I don't have my books with me. \nA\ncursory search in Amazon's book search does offer this, however, although \nit\nis not an error and it is not unequivocal:\n\nNarrator talking to the godling (who refers to him as \"holy one\"):\n\"It was as if there were shooting stars in his hands, like the stars at \nthe\nbottom of the grave to which Silk and Hyacinth had driven Orpine's body in \na\ndream he recalled with uncanny clarity.\"\nRTTW 138\n\n\n\n------------------------------\n\nMessage: 9\nDate: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:39:51 -0500\nFrom: \"Gregg\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Ending of The Knight\nTo: \nMessage-ID: <002401c4f836$d8948130$55fcaccf@GWB>\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"US-ASCII\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Message: 9\nDate: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:05:05 -0500\nFrom: \"James Wynn\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Ending of The Knight" } ] } ] }