# urth-urth.net Digest, Vol 5, Issue 19 *The Urth list — 1 messages, 1 voices, 11 Jan 2005* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Alice K. Turner *11 Jan 2005, 21:00* Um, that was a joke? Referring to Spain in the quote? And to the Orwell reference? I know where Lepanto is/was. You forgot to point out that Chesterton was not technically a Victorian writer either, which I also know, and was partly the point. -alga > I am sorry to disappoint you, but battle of Lepanto had nothing to do > with the conquiscadors, except that most Christian soldiers there were > Spanish. It was a defensive battle against Turkey. If you think that > Europeans having a temerity to defend themselves against an Islamic > barbarous invasion constitutes robust Victorian jingoism, I can say > nothing more. > > I use the word barbarous deliberately. When Famagusta surrendered to > the Turks, they made a drum of the skin of the commander. > > > According to Encyclopedia Britannica > > Lepanto, Battle of > > (Oct. 7, 1571), naval engagement between allied Christian forces and > the Ottoman Turks during an Ottoman campaign to acquire the Venetian > island of Cyprus. Seeking to drive Venice from the eastern > Mediterranean, the forces of Sultan Selim II invaded Cyprus in 1570. > The Venetians formed an alliance with Pope Pius V and Philip II of > Spain (May 25, 1571). Philip sent his half brother, Don John of > Austria, to command the allied forces. By the time the allies > assembled at Messina, Sicily (Aug. 24, 1571), the Turks had captured > Nicosia (Sept. 9, 1570), besieged Famagusta, and entered the > Adriatic. Their fleet lay in the Gulf of Patras, near Lepanto > (N?vpaktos), Greece. The allied fleet of more than 200 ships sailed > for Corfu on September 15 and on October 7 advanced in four squadrons > against the Ottoman fleet, commanded by Ali Pa a, Mu?ammad Saulak > (governor of Alexandria), and Uluj Ali (dey of Algiers). After about > four hours of fighting, the allies were victorious, capturing 117 > galleys and thousands of men. Of little practical value (Venice > surrendered Cyprus to the Turks in 1573), the battle had a great > impact on European morale and was the subject of paintings by Titian, > Tintoretto, and Veronese. > > > > > > > > -- > > > Stanislaus Bocian > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 05-01-10 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Startuj z INTERIA.PL!!! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1837 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:24:13 +0000 > From: "Chris" > Subject: Re: (urth) SciFi politics > To: thewynns at earthlink.net, urth-urth.net at lists.urth.net > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > I am undecided on the supply-side economics bit, but I did not think that > the gun-ownership bit was clumsily inserted either; it's quite to the > point > and a real concern in the particular political situation Silk found > himself > in. And ultimately it seemed to me like Silk's position on guns, at that > point, was largely a matter of political pragmatism rather than universal > principle. To me, the issue there wasn't "gun control" but rather the > distribution of power to individuals in an unstable, revolutionary > atmosphere. > > I am not sure that Wolfe could even have realistically avoided the > subject. >>> I wouldn't go so far as to endorse this point of view whole-heartedly, >>> but I was struck by how jarring the paeans to supply-side economics and >>> universal gun ownership were in Exodus from the Long Sun. At the time >>> they seemed so clumsily inserted that I wasn't sure if they were satire >>> or GW's views.... Now I assume the latter? >> I didn't think they were clumsily inserted. I think they were jarring >> because the plurality of SciFi writers are politically liberal. >> >> Thus, placing favorable views to gun-ownership and supply-side economics >> in >> the mouth of a very simpathic and (presented as) wise character might have >> caught you unaware if you did not previously know of Wolfe's conservative >> politics. >> >> ~ Crush >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Urth Mailing List >> To post, write urth at urth.net >> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:33:11 -0500 > From: "James Wynn" > Subject: Re: (urth) silver glass > To: > Message-ID: <014401c4f835$ea6be070$4c1e4b0a at vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> Narrator or not) that Horn will succeed in taking Silk to Blue. He will >>> take >>> Silk's body and all his memories (the Narrator makes several errors in >>> memory while on the Whorl that prove he still retains Silk's memories as >>> well as Horn's). >> I more or less agree, but now that you've got my interest piqued can you >> give an example? I don't remember seeing any occasions that made it drop >> dead certain to me that he had Silk's memories, but then it has been a >> little while. > Oh that's a fine thing. I can't remember a mistake at this moment but I > remember NOTING them as I read RTTW. Also, I don't have my books with me. > A > cursory search in Amazon's book search does offer this, however, although > it > is not an error and it is not unequivocal: > > Narrator talking to the godling (who refers to him as "holy one"): > "It was as if there were shooting stars in his hands, like the stars at > the > bottom of the grave to which Silk and Hyacinth had driven Orpine's body in > a > dream he recalled with uncanny clarity." > RTTW 138 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:39:51 -0500 > From: "Gregg" > Subject: Re: (urth) Ending of The Knight > To: > Message-ID: <002401c4f836$d8948130$55fcaccf@GWB> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> Message: 9 >> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:05:05 -0500 >> From: "James Wynn" >> Subject: Re: (urth) Ending of The Knight ---