Subject: (urth) Compliant (sic)

From: Jim Raylor <rjraylor at yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 04:38:22 +0000

David, I agree that it is unnecessary to re-quote a
long message before adding one line of reply.
I think Maru and Dan'l were merely pointing out the
parallels in themes, linguistic tricks and aspirations
between Joyce and Wolfe, which I feel is valid
comment.
I also find echoes of Borges and foreshadows of
Hofstadter in 5HOC.
I attempt to post insights that have occurred to me as
I re-read this book, if I cannot find evidence that I
am just raking over dead ashes.
This seems an appropriate forum for introducing such
topics, which I am quite happy to discuss in private
correspondence, if they stray too far off topic.

Reading the book 5HOC in parallel with 'Anne of Green
Gables' and Google is bound to influence the style of
my contributions.

There is one point, where Phaedria's theatrical
project is described, which had me laughing out
loud... (GW's 'jokes' often just make me groan).

The committee, primarily young women, write a play
which '- inevitably - revolved about the loss of
political power by the original French speaking
colonists.'

How far from the stereotypical picture of the fancies
that appeal to young women can you get?

Anne's story group and theatrical party deal with the
more usual themes of 'tragical romance'.

=====

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:58:54 +0000

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:38:16 +0000 (GMT), Jim Raylor
> between Joyce and Wolfe, which I feel is valid

Actually, it was a "litter of protest," against the kind of 
reading often directed at _Finnegans Wake_, in which
"it's in there if you can find it, whether or not Joyce
ever intended it." 

LIke ferexample: in the passage (in the first section)
about the Willingdone Museyroom (mind yer hat goan
in!), there is a line about the "lipoleum boyce 
grouching in their trinches" - spelling is approximate, 
from memory - and I knew someone who _insisted_ 
that this was a reference to the Marx brothers, because 
Groucho had worn a Napoleon costume in an early 
stage play. (The woman in question was a moderately
talented Joyce scholar and an absolute Marx bros.
fanatic.) 

--Dan'l

-- 
www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer
Freedom has no barcode.
     --J.G. Ballard

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From: James Wynn <thewynns at earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:59:41 +0000

>"it's in there if you can find it, whether or not Joyce

I'm almost embarrassed to broach this subject since some people believe I'm
as guilty of this as anyone, however...

In my opinion, you have lost your way in Google. It's powers of association
are impressive -- so much so that it is a mistake to take results as
authoritative in themselves when applying them to Wolfe.

On the other hand, it is also possible that no one else on the list has
arrived at Wolfe's works with the proper background knowledge (in say, "Anne
of Greene Gables") to appreciate some subtlety that Wolfe has deliberately
woven into his works (I've been frustrated by this problem myself at times
IMO).  In that case, you are casting pearls before swine and should obey
Jesus' command regarding this. I recommend writing a series of footnoted
articles on these ideas and posting them on a website (here's an example:
http://www.urth.org/whorlmap/) so you can attract readers who *are* able to
appreciate your annotations.

The best way to tell if only swine are reading your posts is to see whether
you are not getting any feedback from other readers on them.

Finally, I am intrigued by your connection with Geneva, Switzerland and
Number Five's city. I half suspect that the city is based on Geneva and the
cities and streets mentioned there can be found on a map of sites (wouldn't
the founding city of Calvinism be a just model for Catholic Wolfe's colony
gone wrong?). I don't believe (as you seem to) that the Engineering college
is the location of Cave Canem. I think it is quite likely to be the
Saltimbanque theatre. Yet, I personally wouldn't mind seeing this theory
poked with a few sticks.

But I'm not sure if that will happen because your other posts are unjustly
undermining your credibility on any matter. As an example, when I queried
for possible candidates in Geneva architecture for the Library in TFHoC, you
posted the address for the library in Geneva, NEW YORK. I think this made us
both look foolish...as though I had begun an earnest intellectual discussion
with a homeless man muttering to himself in the streets, or that I had been
taken in by a prankster.

You've planted a lot of seeds in the last two days. Why not sit back and see
if anything grows from it?

~ Crush

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From: maru <marudubshinki at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:33:45 +0000

Jim something just occured to me: Cerberus came out in 1972 no?  The 
mention of the French inevitably brings to mind their failure at Dien 
Bien Phu, which led to America's entry into the Vietnam war.  What 
significance do you think those real world events have to the plot?

~Maru