Compliant (sic) The Urth list — 4 messages, 4 voices, 19 Jan 2005 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4325 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== Jim Raylor — 19 Jan 2005, 04:38 David, I agree that it is unnecessary to re-quote a long message before adding one line of reply. I think Maru and Dan'l were merely pointing out the parallels in themes, linguistic tricks and aspirations between Joyce and Wolfe, which I feel is valid comment. I also find echoes of Borges and foreshadows of Hofstadter in 5HOC. I attempt to post insights that have occurred to me as I re-read this book, if I cannot find evidence that I am just raking over dead ashes. This seems an appropriate forum for introducing such topics, which I am quite happy to discuss in private correspondence, if they stray too far off topic. Reading the book 5HOC in parallel with 'Anne of Green Gables' and Google is bound to influence the style of my contributions. There is one point, where Phaedria's theatrical project is described, which had me laughing out loud... (GW's 'jokes' often just make me groan). The committee, primarily young women, write a play which '- inevitably - revolved about the loss of political power by the original French speaking colonists.' How far from the stereotypical picture of the fancies that appeal to young women can you get? Anne's story group and theatrical party deal with the more usual themes of 'tragical romance'. ===== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan'l Danehy-Oakes — 19 Jan 2005, 08:58 in reply to Jim Raylor > On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:38:16 +0000 (GMT), Jim Raylor > wrote: > I think Maru and Dan'l were merely pointing out the > parallels in themes, linguistic tricks and aspirations > between Joyce and Wolfe, which I feel is valid > comment. Actually, it was a "litter of protest," against the kind of reading often directed at _Finnegans Wake_, in which "it's in there if you can find it, whether or not Joyce ever intended it." LIke ferexample: in the passage (in the first section) about the Willingdone Museyroom (mind yer hat goan in!), there is a line about the "lipoleum boyce grouching in their trinches" - spelling is approximate, from memory - and I knew someone who _insisted_ that this was a reference to the Marx brothers, because Groucho had worn a Napoleon costume in an early stage play. (The woman in question was a moderately talented Joyce scholar and an absolute Marx bros. fanatic.) --Dan'l -- www.livejournal.com/users/sturgeonslawyer Freedom has no barcode. --J.G. Ballard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ James Wynn — 19 Jan 2005, 09:59 in reply to Dan'l Danehy-Oakes > > I think Maru and Dan'l were merely pointing out the > > parallels in themes, linguistic tricks and aspirations > > between Joyce and Wolfe, which I feel is valid > > comment. > Actually, it was a "litter of protest," against the kind of > reading often directed at _Finnegans Wake_, in which > "it's in there if you can find it, whether or not Joyce > ever intended it." I'm almost embarrassed to broach this subject since some people believe I'm as guilty of this as anyone, however... In my opinion, you have lost your way in Google. It's powers of association are impressive -- so much so that it is a mistake to take results as authoritative in themselves when applying them to Wolfe. On the other hand, it is also possible that no one else on the list has arrived at Wolfe's works with the proper background knowledge (in say, "Anne of Greene Gables") to appreciate some subtlety that Wolfe has deliberately woven into his works (I've been frustrated by this problem myself at times IMO). In that case, you are casting pearls before swine and should obey Jesus' command regarding this. I recommend writing a series of footnoted articles on these ideas and posting them on a website (here's an example: http://www.urth.org/whorlmap/) so you can attract readers who *are* able to appreciate your annotations. The best way to tell if only swine are reading your posts is to see whether you are not getting any feedback from other readers on them. Finally, I am intrigued by your connection with Geneva, Switzerland and Number Five's city. I half suspect that the city is based on Geneva and the cities and streets mentioned there can be found on a map of sites (wouldn't the founding city of Calvinism be a just model for Catholic Wolfe's colony gone wrong?). I don't believe (as you seem to) that the Engineering college is the location of Cave Canem. I think it is quite likely to be the Saltimbanque theatre. Yet, I personally wouldn't mind seeing this theory poked with a few sticks. But I'm not sure if that will happen because your other posts are unjustly undermining your credibility on any matter. As an example, when I queried for possible candidates in Geneva architecture for the Library in TFHoC, you posted the address for the library in Geneva, NEW YORK. I think this made us both look foolish...as though I had begun an earnest intellectual discussion with a homeless man muttering to himself in the streets, or that I had been taken in by a prankster. You've planted a lot of seeds in the last two days. Why not sit back and see if anything grows from it? ~ Crush ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ maru — 19 Jan 2005, 13:33 in reply to Jim Raylor Jim something just occured to me: Cerberus came out in 1972 no? The mention of the French inevitably brings to mind their failure at Dien Bien Phu, which led to America's entry into the Vietnam war. What significance do you think those real world events have to the plot? ~Maru > Jim Raylor wrote: > The committee, primarily young women, write a play > which '- inevitably - revolved about the loss of > political power by the original French speaking > colonists.' > > How far from the stereotypical picture of the fancies > that appeal to young women can you get? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------