{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4395",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 4395,
    "subject": "Multitudes & Epitomes",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2005-04-03T05:38:53+00:00",
    "last": "2005-04-03T21:20:24+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<20050403123849.E6F6A33C58@mailserver5.hushmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com",
        "address": "thalassocrat at nym.hush.com"
      },
      "date": "2005-04-03T05:38:53+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Multitudes & Epitomes",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The big difference between Ushas/No-Ushas is surely that Ushas \nleads to transcendence - humanity evolves into some kind of angelic \nstate, beyond the clutches of time & above this plane of creation. \nWithout Ushas, humanity, no matter how abundant, eventually \ndisappears with the end of this universe. Anyway, that's my \nunderstanding, and a straightforward utilitarian analysis points to \nUshas as the optimal outcome, given that the bliss of one angel is \nsurely vaster than the contentment of an infinity of mortals - or \nsomething like that :)\n\nIt would help if we had some kind of hint as to why Ushas is \nessential to this evolution. Perhaps it is not Ushas itself, but \nthe sacrifice Ushas reprsents; if so, it would be nice to have some \nmore hints on that, too. \n\nThe brief glimpse we get of Ushas isn't very promising. Those \nfounders of the new population we meet are reminiscent of the \npassengers on the \"B group\" colony ship from Hitchikers' Guide to \nthe Galaxy - the Urthian equivalents of telephone sanitizers. \nSurvivors from The Battle are also in the mix, but they seem like a \nfairly motley bunch also. And Abaia & his minions (and Baldanders?) \nare still around.\n\nI guess Sev is the key. Autarchs who fail the test are gelded so \nthat they can't breed; perhaps the converse is that the New Sun is \nsupposed to breed *lots*. And he's had some accelerated training in \nthe Holy Man profession. Perhaps Ushas as we see it is like a new \nEden, except this time with a mentor.\n\nBut I don't see why Ushas+Sev is more likely to foster a race of \nangels than Blue+Silkhorn. Another uncomfortable little fit between \nNew Sun and Long/Short Sun? Or something deeper?\n\nRoy pointed out Sev's lack of apparent qualifications for the role \nof Epitome. I can think of counter-arguments, but there's also a \nShort Sun angle. Horn is the Epitome of humanity for the Neighbors \nwhen he gives them permission to visit Blue (and also maybe when he \ncleans the sewer). His only qualification appears to be Seawrack's \nring, which apparently identifies him as somebody Neighbor-\nfriendly. \n\nThe Neighbors admit that they have fixed the game by choosing Horn \nas Epitome, rather than some other, yet I'm sure we are supposed to \nthink that Horn's assent is required, valid and binding, in some \nsense, on humanity. Similarly, Sev has been groomed to give the \ndesired outcome, but nevertheless his assent as Epitome is also \nrequired, valid and bindng. \n\nI think the same principle is at work in both cases, even though I \ndon't really understand it."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<Pine.LNX.4.58.0504041413330.8369@orpheus.qimr.edu.au>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Duffy",
        "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au"
      },
      "date": "2005-04-03T21:20:24+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Multitudes & Epitomes",
      "in_reply_to": "<20050403123849.E6F6A33C58@mailserver5.hushmail.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 thalassocrat at nym.hush.com wrote:\nRoy pointed out Sev's lack of apparent qualifications for the role\nof Epitome..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "A man so various that he seemed to be Not one, but\nall mankind's epitome.                --Dryden.\n\n\n\n\n| David Duffy (MBBS PhD)                                         ,-_|\\\n| email: davidD at qimr.edu.au  ph: INT+61+7+3362-0217 fax: -0101  /     *\n| Epidemiology Unit, Queensland Institute of Medical Research   \\_,-._/\n| 300 Herston Rd, Brisbane, Queensland 4029, Australia  GPG 4D0B994A v"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}