{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/4396", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 4396, "subject": "TEOTNS", "messages": 8, "voices": 4, "first": "2005-04-04T19:39:15+00:00", "last": "2005-04-17T15:50:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<4251FA4E.9080709@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "maru", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-04-04T19:39:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TEOTNS", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I finally bought Urth o' the New Sun, and have been\ncarefully re-reading it.\n\nAside from the murky issues of just what Severian is at this point\nor what's up with the time travelling or the Increate, or how the whole\nKabbalistic scheme works, I want to clear something up:\n\nSev, at the begining, tosses his Book of the New Sun (our BOTNS as well)\ntoward a 'new universe', when the ship is apparently floating on the stream\nbetwixt Briah and Yesod. Is that the explanation for the 'translator's \nnotes'\nin our BOTNS? Cause they always confused me otherwise.\n\nAnother thing: It seems clear to me, from what Apheta says about how there\nwere two possibilites for Urth/Ushas (another thing: Is there a special \nsignificance\nto that name? I do not recognize it at all.), with each having a certain \npossibility/\nchance-of-coming-into-being,\nbut each nevertheless reachs back into the fixed past whether through \nSev's premature\naccess to New Sun powers, or Master Ash. So, in 4-d space, each future \nexists. We know\nfurther that the ship can navigate not just in 3-d, nor in universe-d, \nbut it also moves about\nin time, which suggests that it should 'land' in multiple future \nuniverses. But, as far as I can\ntell, it never does. Why not? or what did I miss?\n\n~Maru" } ] }, { "message_id": "<23f894a0050404234828eb95e0@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Andrew Kertesz", "address": "andrew.kertesz at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-04-04T23:48:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TEOTNS", "in_reply_to": "<4251FA4E.9080709@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "maru wrote:\nSev, at the begining, tosses his Book of the New Sun (our BOTNS as well)\ntoward a 'new universe', when the ship is apparently floating on the stream\nbetwixt Briah and Yesod. Is that the explanation for the 'translator's\nnotes'\nin our BOTNS? Cause they always confused me otherwise." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That was my understanding of it. I don't know whether Wolfe was\noperating under the conceit that he was the one who found the book\n(like Eco did in the opening of _The Name of the Rose_) but it'd be\nneat if he was." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Another thing: It seems clear to me, from what Apheta says about how there\nwere two possibilites for Urth/Ushas (another thing: Is there a special\nsignificance\nto that name? I do not recognize it at all.), with each having a certain\npossibility/\nchance-of-coming-into-being,\nbut each nevertheless reachs back into the fixed past whether through\nSev's premature\naccess to New Sun powers, or Master Ash. So, in 4-d space, each future\nexists. We know\nfurther that the ship can navigate not just in 3-d, nor in universe-d,\nbut it also moves about\nin time, which suggests that it should 'land' in multiple future\nuniverses. But, as far as I can\ntell, it never does. Why not? or what did I miss?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My understanding was that the ship can only move backwards through\ntime. I understood it as this - when the ship accelerates beyond light\nspeed, the effect of relativity means that it incurs a time \"debt\",\nand thus it can arrive at its destination before it has left its point\nof origin.\n\nSo, does Yesod exist separate to Briah's time-continum, or did Sev.\narrive there before he left Urth?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<2124d6b10504051145161cf851@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "pthwndxrclzp", "address": "aquastor at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-04-05T11:46:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TEOTNS", "in_reply_to": "<4251FA4E.9080709@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As I recall you recently (and rather snottily) instructed another new\nlist member, why don't you \"check the f'in archives.\"\n\nNot as pleasant when you're on the receiving end, huh.\n\nAq" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 4, 2005 7:39 PM, maru wrote:\nAnother thing: It seems clear to me, from what Apheta says about how there\nwere two possibilites for Urth/Ushas (another thing: Is there a special\nsignificance\nto that name? I do not recognize it at all.)" } ] }, { "message_id": "<42532132.4060008@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "maru", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-04-05T16:40:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TEOTNS", "in_reply_to": "<2124d6b10504051145161cf851@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, it isn't pleasant when you are on the receiving end;\nI quite agree.\n\nMakes me glad I was at the other end.\n\n(To be less oblique, I did, in fact, check the archives\nand while I found considerable interesting speculation\non whether Blue could be Ushas, and an answer as to\nwhat the 'sister list' was that some had alluded to, I found\nzilch in the way of semantic meaning of Ushas, or its\netymology.)\n\n~Maru" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "pthwndxrclzp wrote:\nAs I recall you recently (and rather snottily) instructed another new\nlist member, why don't you \"check the f'in archives.\"\n\nNot as pleasant when you're on the receiving end, huh.\n\nAq\n\nOn Apr 4, 2005 7:39 PM, maru wrote:\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Another thing: It seems clear to me, from what Apheta says about how there\nwere two possibilites for Urth/Ushas (another thing: Is there a special\nsignificance\nto that name? I do not recognize it at all.)\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<2124d6b105040516535b57e585@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "pthwndxrclzp", "address": "aquastor at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-04-05T16:53:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TEOTNS", "in_reply_to": "<42532132.4060008@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ushas = Sanskrit for \"dawn\" \n\nI was sure I'd learned that from an old post, but you are correct that\nit does not appear in the archives. My apologies for leading with a\nnose out of joint rather than pure information." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 5, 2005 4:37 PM, maru wrote:\nNo, it isn't pleasant when you are on the receiving end;\nI quite agree.\n\nMakes me glad I was at the other end.\n\n(To be less oblique, I did, in fact, check the archives\nand while I found considerable interesting speculation\non whether Blue could be Ushas, and an answer as to\nwhat the 'sister list' was that some had alluded to, I found\nzilch in the way of semantic meaning of Ushas, or its\netymology.)\n\n~Maru\n\npthwndxrclzp wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "As I recall you recently (and rather snottily) instructed another new\nlist member, why don't you \"check the f'in archives.\"\n\nNot as pleasant when you're on the receiving end, huh.\n\nAq\n\nOn Apr 4, 2005 7:39 PM, maru wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Another thing: It seems clear to me, from what Apheta says about how there\nwere two possibilites for Urth/Ushas (another thing: Is there a special\nsignificance\nto that name? I do not recognize it at all.)" } ] }, { "message_id": "<42532836.1060608@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "maru", "address": "marudubshinki at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-04-05T17:07:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TEOTNS", "in_reply_to": "<2124d6b105040516535b57e585@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Merci. 'Dawn' makes perfect sense since it is a new Urth and new Sun.\n\n~Maru" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "pthwndxrclzp wrote:\nUshas = Sanskrit for \"dawn\" \n\nI was sure I'd learned that from an old post, but you are correct that\nit does not appear in the archives. My apologies for leading with a\nnose out of joint rather than pure information.\n\nOn Apr 5, 2005 4:37 PM, maru wrote:\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "No, it isn't pleasant when you are on the receiving end;\nI quite agree.\n\nMakes me glad I was at the other end.\n\n(To be less oblique, I did, in fact, check the archives\nand while I found considerable interesting speculation\non whether Blue could be Ushas, and an answer as to\nwhat the 'sister list' was that some had alluded to, I found\nzilch in the way of semantic meaning of Ushas, or its\netymology.)\n\n~Maru\n\npthwndxrclzp wrote:\n\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "As I recall you recently (and rather snottily) instructed another new\nlist member, why don't you \"check the f'in archives.\"\n\nNot as pleasant when you're on the receiving end, huh.\n\nAq\n\nOn Apr 4, 2005 7:39 PM, maru wrote:\n\n\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Another thing: It seems clear to me, from what Apheta says about how there\nwere two possibilites for Urth/Ushas (another thing: Is there a special\nsignificance\nto that name? I do not recognize it at all.)\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<2124d6b105040517131f014109@mail.gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "pthwndxrclzp", "address": "aquastor at gmail.com" }, "date": "2005-04-05T17:13:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TEOTNS", "in_reply_to": "<42532836.1060608@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Absolutely, and rather neatly (although that is no surprise, given\nthat it's Wolfe ).\n\nAs a personal aside, I have met more than one 60s survivor out here in\nCalifornia whose near-obligatory 70s name-change was to \"Ushas.\" Gave\nme a chill the first time I was introduced to an Ushas, particularly\nsince I'd only recently completed my first reading of UOTNS." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 5, 2005 5:07 PM, maru wrote:\nMerci. 'Dawn' makes perfect sense since it is a new Urth and new Sun.\n\n~Maru\n\npthwndxrclzp wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Ushas = Sanskrit for \"dawn\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4262E834.3070507@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2005-04-17T15:50:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) TEOTNS", "in_reply_to": "<2124d6b105040517131f014109@mail.gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "pthwndxrclzp wrote:\nAbsolutely, and rather neatly (although that is no surprise, given\nthat it's Wolfe ).\n\nAs a personal aside, I have met more than one 60s survivor out here in\nCalifornia whose near-obligatory 70s name-change was to \"Ushas.\" Gave\nme a chill the first time I was introduced to an Ushas, particularly\nsince I'd only recently completed my first reading of UOTNS." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I had a similar exeperience after reading \"The Boy Who Hooked the Sun\" \nand then suffering through a Hawaiin vacation slideshow, only to be \npresented with a mural of a boy netting the sun and hearing the eerily \nsimilar tale related." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\n< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >" } ] } ] }